David Cohen of Techstars joins Nick to discuss The Techstars Refresh, Why Bigger Isn’t Better, Investing in the Seed-Strapping Era, and Why Quantum May Dwarf Every Tech Shift. In this episode we cover:
- Refocusing TechStars
- Programs and Deal Structure
- Selection Process and Follow-On Investments
- Successful Programs and Founder Network
- Geographic Distribution and AI-First Companies
- Seed Strapping and Capital Efficiency
- Vertical Networks and Emerging Technologies
- Future of Venture and Trends
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0:17
David Cohen is back joining us today from Boulder, Colorado. He’s the Founder and CEO of Techstars, the global accelerator and venture firm with over $1B AUM that has backed over 4,000 startups. Across their accelerator and funds, they have invested in 22 unicorns, including DigitalOcean, PillPack, Remitly, SendGrid, Twilio, Uber, Scopely, and Zipline. David also co-authored a book, Do More Faster, with Brad Feld, and before Techstars, was a serial entrepreneur with multiple successful exits. David, welcome back to the show!
0:54
Hey, Nick, great to see you again. Also a failure in those startups. I got it all, yeah,
1:00
successes and failures? Well, you’re not real if you don’t have some of this, right? So, so David, last time you were on the show, June 26 2018 I just looked it up. A lot has happened since then. Bring us up to speed on yourself and in Tech Stars,
1:17
sure. Well, great to be back, and I’m also back as CEO here at TechStars for about 16 months now, as we’re talking today, it’s a little over a year, and that was after about a four, four and a half year stint as chairman. Had stepped back a bit and was supporting, you know, the team any way I could, but but sort of working, you know, maybe half time in that period supporting the CEO, and so came back, you know, again about 16 months ago, and sort of have my three recommitments are brought back to the company and excited to be back in the seat and jamming again. So we are now over 18 years old. We’re now an adult here at TechStars. Maybe went through, you know, as as lots of folks do you know, the awkward teenage years, drank a little too much, party a little too much, but you know, now we’ve grown up and and, you know, are sort of getting off into the real world again. So it’s, it’s been quite a journey at TechStars, and I’m excited to be back at the helm again.
2:16
So why did you come back to RUN Tech Stars?
2:20
Well, it was an opportunity to do so. And I think I had that four year break where I was, you know, maybe getting a little extra travel in and recharging my batteries, and felt like, you know, that was a moment to, you know, really bring back those founding values. And kind of founder mode was the meme, if you remember, in that moment, and just felt like I had the energy for it and was excited to do it. You know, still have some years in me and some excitement about it. And love, love, love, what it is. You know, it helps so many founders around the world, you know, achieve success, or at least have a shot at it. And, you know, the network is really powerful and awesome. So, you know, it’s a really unique opportunity, and didn’t want to pass it
3:03
up. So is this like a reboot, a refresh? You know, how would you cast kind of the this new phase for TechStars?
3:11
I would say it’s a refocus, three, the three recommitments that I came back with. Again, I like to call them recommitments, because they’re really nothing new for me and how I’ve always operated the business, you know, in the first 14 or so years, which are one, you know, we’re here to help founders succeed, right? The founders are the customer. We have a lot of constituents around the network these days. You know, as you you know, we have limited partners. We have, you know, corporate partners around the system. We’ve got lots of mentors, or a lot of partners that we work with closely to help founders succeed, but there’s only one customer, so that’s sort of number one, is really refocusing on the founder as the customer here. Two is embracing startup communities the way TechStars was built. We are really a product of the startup communities that we operate in. They are much, much more powerful than the few 100 people that we are in the organization. You know, the mentors that contribute, the investors that contribute, we want to embrace them, help them feel ownership of TechStars programs that do operate in their community. We’re a part of them, helping build that community to be a grow, growing and thriving startup community over time, many of them already are that and, you know, finally, the third one is more cultural. You know, it’s bigger. Isn’t better. Better is better, right? It’s just a focused on quality and just being better every day for founders. So we’ve done things like, you know, improve the investment offer and really, you know, shore up the process that we’re using to select companies. I just think we’re getting higher quality across the board. So that’s exciting as well.
4:43
So take us from like 30,000 feet down to ground level. If we start at 30,000 feet, what programs exist moving forward, what, what programs don’t, and all the way down to ground level, talk to us about the actual. You know, deal you do with startups, you you hinted at it. It’s changed a little bit,
5:04
sure. So, you know, we coined the word accelerator. Brad Feld, my co founder, coined that word a long time ago, and of course, it’s caught on. And there are many, many accelerators around the world now. But you know, we are established in, you know, most of the major startup markets in the world, we operate our accelerator programs in 10 or 12 countries, something like that, maybe about 2025, locations. So you know, we’re operating where you would expect, right in New York and Boston and, you know, London and places like that. But also, you know, here in Boulder, where I live, in Colorado, places like Chicago or Atlanta or Toronto, Amsterdam, right? So, so we’re sort of part of building growing, thriving startup communities around the world as well. The process we use a three month mentorship driven accelerator. So we have many 1000s of mentors who engage, and many of the alumni that that you mentioned in your open engage and mentor and invest as well. There are about 20,000 unique investors that have invested in our portfolio, right? And so we get a lot of you know, investors, angels, venture firms, looking at the output of our accelerators. The offer we make is pretty simple. We become essentially a co founder to the companies that go through our program, and we have a 5% common stock interest, right in those companies that go through the accelerator. And we also invest $200,000 of uncapped money, right? So it’s just whatever the next investors come along and value the company, and we just convert our 200,000 into that. So we like to think of ourselves as a common stock co founder. So we become an investor also through that $200,000 uncapped convertible note, and that’s a standard deal we do with every company that goes through the program. They get that three months of intensive mentorship, and they get that network of TechStars for life, which we think is really helpful.
6:54
And does that mentorship process, the three month cohort system? Does that change or reshape, or
7:01
we’re just focused on a quality group. So you know, we were previously running multiple times a year, for example, in a lot of places, and now we might just be running one time a year in that place. We also have virtual programs, of course, where people can’t be in that place. Cohort sizes tend to be eight to 10 companies, so pretty small compared to some groups that like to have, you know, 100 or 200 companies there at a time. We like to really focus on kind of eight or 10, smaller class size, a lot of attention from the local community during our accelerator programs. So we’ve scaled through geography versus, like, trying to do it all in one program,
7:38
perfect. And you did mention that you’re going to shore up the selection process help me understand and maybe the listeners understand what what goes into that process, and kind of how you think about identifying the standouts?
7:52
Yeah, so we’re seeing large resurgence in applications about two to 3x two and a half x something like that, in the last three or four years. So volume of applications that we look at about 20,000 companies per year across the system, and we’re picking, you know, say, 400 of those rough order against flexible because it depends how many we pick for each class. So, you know, it’s a one to 2% kind of selection rate. We’re using an investment committee process to do that that most venture funds would be familiar with. Andrew Cleland, who’s a 20 year venture investor myself, maybe a little older than that, even Brad Feld, who’s my co founder, you know, very long career and venture capital, and a couple of our most experienced managing directors. And we look at every single deal across the system, and we ask all the hard questions, right of the folks that are bringing those deals in, because we have dozens of managing directors that are outsourcing those opportunities, learning about them, engaging with them, so that, I think, is allowed us to make better selections, which has been great. Think we’re feeling that in our programs, the newer offer that I mentioned is really helped us, you know, attract some great companies now, and so, you know, it’s really just kind of a focus on making sure we’re getting quality, not just volume of companies. We don’t need to be funding 1000s of companies a year. We need to find the best ones we can and help them be successful.
9:17
And how does the follow on investment model work? You know, from a capital allocation and a decision making standpoint,
9:23
yeah. So we have two strategies with our funds at TechStars, right? Strategy. One is this accelerator investing, which is, again, this fixed amount, fixed equity, you know, standardized deal when you get into our accelerator, but on the way out, we essentially have a pro rata investing Fund, which is our follow on strategy. So we’re not trying to, you know, take the whole series A but we’re trying to sort of maintain, you know, most or all of our ownership alongside those investors. And so we have a team that’s focused on deploying that capital out of that second strategy that is looking at everything you would imagine, right? How did they perform in the accelerator? Program, we have pretty deep insight from that experience, you know, tracking their KPIs. And then, of course, who, who are the CO investors that matters as well? Perfect.
10:09
And you know, as you do this retrospective, think about the programs that worked best, the ones that didn’t work as well. Are there certain characteristics that separate the most successful programs, not the startup, but the programs from the rest. Well, you
10:25
know, in this business, as you know, it’s, it’s all about the people, right? And so if you think about the real outliers, you know, we had a program led by Andy sack in Seattle that had three unicorns in 10 companies, you know, you sort of say, well, what’s so special about that? Well, Andy, you know, he put his heart and soul into it. Is a strong and experienced investor, and so I think the managing director has a lot to do with it. Folks like Jenny Fielding, right, that had run the New York program helped us source companies like chainalysis, you know, and alloy and many others. It’s the people, right? And so we just had our big founder con event, as we’re talking last week here in Colorado, and we had about 25 former managing directors, many of whom now run their own venture funds, you know, come to the event and and sort of teach and share some of their experience with the newer folks that are in the system. So we’re really, you know, we’ve got an alumni network of former MDs that are teaching the new ones and engaging with the system, and it’s become a really nice mafia effect around TechStars. And so ultimately, I would say, when you think back on it, it’s always the people awesome.
11:35
You know, many of your biggest winners were outside the Bay Area. What advice do you have for founders that are building and scaling. You know, outside of San Francisco,
11:46
you can do it. I mean, I think that, you know, people can choose to live where they want to live. I think it’s helpful to be in a vibrant startup community, and there are many now, a lot of the, you know, the folklore of the Bay Area. I mean, it’s obviously an amazing ecosystem, right? But most of the big companies that are there came from somewhere else, right? And, you know, it is a great place to be, lots of capital, lots of other really smart people, but there are many great places to be, and you can always decide you want to have a location there, or even move your headquarters there in the future. But anyone who says you can’t build a great startup and in Boulder or, you know, Omaha or New York, you know, I just think they’re ignoring the readily available data. At this point, you definitely can do it. So just go for it.
12:34
Are you seeing kind of a are you seeing the gravity move back to Silicon Valley? It’s sort of in this age of AI first, everything
12:42
to some degree. I mean, certainly AI. I think if you if you really want to be in the middle of it, you at least need to go there and sort of be in some of those conversations. But there’s great stuff going on all over the world in that regard, right? And again, I don’t think that all of the great you know AI, which, by the way, I just call software companies, will come from the Bay Area, right? I think they’ll come from all over and again. Many of them will end up being headquartered there. Are moving there because of the benefits of the ecosystem, but they’ll start all over the world, and I’m seeing
13:12
that already. And what do you see in sort of the AI first companies that you’re evaluating, what separates one, one startup from
13:22
another. It’s interesting. I feel like, you know, they have what I guess I would refer to, and I think Andy sack, who I mentioned earlier, refers to as AI first leaders. Right there, the AI first CEO. They just think that way. They operate that way. They’re building that way from day one. And, you know, it’s been popular. I’m sure you’ve had folks talk about, you know, the 10 person unicorn, right? Or the, when will we see the one person unicorn? I’m curious when we’ll see the zero person unicorn, right? That that can happen, but they’re, they’re thinking about those sorts of leverage and efficiencies from day one. It’s not a CEO just doesn’t think that way, right? That’s leading a bunch of engineers that do that seem to be the magic combination.
14:04
So you’re, you’re likely investing in a lot of a lot of companies that are using AI. Are you building AI into the programming at Tech Stars and into
14:13
your approach? Yeah. So Startup Weekend now is evolving to where, you know that’s, that’s a event we run on the weekend to sort of source interesting founders around the world. And we run hundreds of these events every year. They’re teaching, obviously, vibe coding in the very beginning of that to people who don’t know it or haven’t seen it, the programs themselves. You know, we’re building virtual investment committee members, where our valuation process right, where we’re collecting feedback from companies. So we’re using these tools, and interestingly, a lot of what gets built is from our alumni. Right? We have a company called sparkway, for example, that were built by some alums, that allow us to really more intelligently look for information in our own portfolio internally, right, that we can share with partners or other alumni. Brenna. And you know, when you have almost 5000 companies, right, it’s a chore to figure out which is the right one to put in which situation. You know, which with which investor, with which partner, etc. And so, you know, just, just the ability to kind of surface data more easily, quickly, people can get something done in 10 seconds rather than 10 days.
15:20
Awesome. Lots of focus at the moment on this seed strapping concept, right? You mentioned the the company of 10, or the company of one or maybe zero. I haven’t heard that before, but that’s pretty wild to think about. Let’s just talk about the seed strapping model, right? We all know bootstrapping, but it seems to it like it’s extended and really talented. 10x founders can do more with less. How do you think that affects venture and your
15:53
model? Well, right? I mean, you can find someone who can build something really huge with a pretty small investment, right? I mean, that’s what, again, AI smarter software is enabling. You know, if someone takes a couple $100,000 from someone like us, that might be all they ever need, right, if they really hit the seam properly. So it’s exciting for us, and we’re seeing, you know, some unicorns that are being built in four or five years, I expect we’re going to start to see one, you know, being built in one or two years. We haven’t seen that yet in our portfolio, but you sort of feel it coming, and you see it in the market. So it’s exciting, because I think you know what it means is less dilution, right? For someone like us that is sort of almost co founding the company, part of the team at the beginning, to really go and do something big and meaningful without needing to rely on having to raise many, many, many rounds of capital. Of course, some of them will still choose to do that.
16:47
So does that suggest that, you know, the new companies enrolling in the program shouldn’t change much, but the following capital demands will
16:56
no I just think that that it’s a mindset, right? Some of them have where, you know, maybe in the past, they were bootstrapping, right? And literally, I mean, I always define bootstrapping as raising as little as you can, not raising nothing. And I was a bootstrapper in my first company, we raised, literally $100,000 right? And built a company, sold it to a public company, and that was a great outcome, because we owned like 95% of the business when we sold it, yeah, you know, and different businesses need different, you know, amounts of capital or different situations, right? Based on what the company is doing and what it needs to really grow and be successful. But I think this attitude that you now see is like, Well, for me, it’s not about building some big organization, right? It’s about having a big outcome, and if I can do that with just a few people or without having raised a lot of capital, that might be better. And I say to myself and those people who say that, yeah, duh. I’ve seen that right in my own career, and I’ve seen that in some of our companies, and it’s definitely really, really really powerful. I just think the opportunity in this moment where software is helping so much, where maybe you don’t need so many developers, right? They’re expensive, because you could just, you know, get the code from, you know, from the software, right? And that is what’s new and really powerful. So I think people are seeing that, and they’re not necessarily saying, hey, I want to go out and raise $100 million they’re saying, wow, look, I’ve got five or 10 million already in revenue, and I can just scale
18:26
this way. What do you think? I mean, you’ve seen a lot more than most of us, right? You’ve been around for a while, you’ve had 22 unicorns. You’ve probably worked or shared cap tables with more VCs than maybe anyone. How do you think this affects venture
18:43
Well, I think people are going to, there’s always a cycle, right? And I’ve seen this cycle three or four times in my investing career now where, you know, it becomes really fashionable to go earlier, right? And the really big funds go off and launch, you know, these seed programs, and, you know, maybe an accelerator or venture studios that try to get there really early. So I think you will see the general market recognizing this trend saying, you know, well, maybe we need to be there first, right? And so again, for us, it’s exciting because we are there first. We’re sourcing around the world. And you know, when we say, hey, this one’s special, you should look at it, right? People pay attention because they see this dynamic. I think you’ll see that wave again, where, you know, the large firms will try to go earlier, but, you know, it does take, it’s a different attitude, it’s a different set of skills. It’s, it’s a, you know, again, we’re people on the ground all over the world, that’s hard to replicate, hard to get right. And it swings back and forth right. The market will then change again for some other reason, and it’ll be fashionable to, you know, not be in the early stage. And that’s why you see these big venture firms building programs that they sort of abandon and go back to, you know, maybe every five to 10 years. So I think you’ll see some of that.
19:56
It’s funny, you know, before we leave the capital. Efficiency point, we can all look at amount of capital raised versus progress as sort of a capital efficiency metric. What other behaviors and signals stand out to you about the least capital efficient and the most capital efficient when you’re investing in companies that are so early, you know, so many of these companies are still in kind of that discovery phase or wilderness phase, and there’s not a whole lot in terms of traction or real metrics to sink your teeth into. So like, how do you find the founders that have this hyper capital efficient mindset? And does that matter even? Well,
20:40
I don’t know that that is the specific thing we’re looking for. I think we’re paying attention to it in this moment. And I would say in my own investing career, I would associate that sort of capital efficiency, or, you know, what I would maybe just loosely call cheapness or stinginess, right? With with, you know, success, right? I mean, I’ve seen founders who are just, you know, don’t want to spend money. They don’t have to spend. And I personally have seen that be really important. It’s, you know, they will spend when they have something they really believe in. But it’s not about, how do I go through the money? Because my investor wants me to go through the money, right? It’s more, you know, what do we have to spend on? What’s really important and that I don’t know what the right word is. It’s not cheapness. It’s a stinginess about how they spend their capital. And I personally identify that way too. The businesses I build, I told you, the first one was bootstrapped. I try to raise as little money as possible outside the funds for the business itself, even in the TechStars business. So, you know, we look for for, you know, Team, Team, Team, you know, market progress and idea, you know, that’s sort of our focus. And I think you’re looking for founders that really understand what they’re trying to change in the world, have a vision about it, and our values oriented. They’re going to build culture around the values that they care about, and they’re going to hold on to the like there’s something that they believe right about how you build a company. It could be capital efficiency. It might not be. Some of the best companies we’ve had come to the program also raised an awful lot of money because they had to. And you know that that founder knew they were going to have to do that, and was clearly going to be strong at it as a storyteller. And so, sort of, you know, founder company fit right that we’re looking for. And, you know, I think we used to focus really heavily on the ability to build stuff, and now, like in this early stage, that’s not as important, right? You can quickly prototype and get your ideas out there attract, you know, capital, resources, people to be able to do that down the line. So the world is changing, but fundamentally, those are the things that we’re focused on.
22:49
So,
22:50
so let’s talk a bit about verticals. Tech Stars recently launched vertical networks around certain industries. What? What industries do you feel like are underestimated and which are maybe too crowded,
23:02
underestimated as a tricky one. It’s, you know, I think that you have to look at the moment right the moment we’re in with AI clearly, is a thing. I think it’s dorfed by quantum computing in the future. I was in a great conversation at our founder con where a bunch of quantum entrepreneurs were saying, if you took all the computing power in the world and right now, and you apply AI to it, and you let that evolve for, say, 50 years, it wouldn’t be able to do what one quantum computer is going to be able to do, right? Wow. And so, you know, we’re about to see computing totally change, probably in the next five to 15 years, right? It’s, not as far off as I think people think, and it’s that, you know, quantum is not just faster or better. It enables compute against things that we don’t, you know, we can’t do today, right? We’re not able to compute these answers. So healthcare, to me, is the ironically killer app of, you know, of quantum meets AI. I think, you know, we’re going to be, we’re going to see some amazing, you know, personalized medicine, you know, the pill that you have to take for your body and your situation. I think that sort of thing is coming, and I think it’s going to have profound impacts in terms of, you know, life’s life expectancy, lifespan, you know, aging, disease, all that stuff. So it’s not underestimated today. People put a lot of energy into healthcare, but I think the opportunity is just enormous in the next couple of decades. And that’s how I think,
24:32
as an investor in where are we at in quantum you know, what inning would you say that we’re we’re in?
24:38
Oh, I mean, you know, we’re maybe, like, warming up in the dugout, you know, like, you know, maybe we’re going to step up to the plate to see the first pitch here pretty soon. In that analogy, it’s got a long, long way to go. But there are really big companies being built in the infrastructure of that, because everybody wants to be the first one there. I mean, the first government, the first organization. And with true quantum compute power, you know, nothing that works today, encryption, or you know, things like that work in that world, right? And so we’re already talking about quantum safe encryption, right? Like it’s got to be much better in that world. So very, very early, I don’t know that I’ll be able to see it all, but I hope to see some of it, and I think it’s going to be really, really profound, in a way that, you know, when the aliens land, right? And 100 years and they say, like, what happened during that 100 year period? Oh, the internet so they could communicate, right? Oh, AI, their software got really smart, right? Which, again, is what that is to me. And they figured out how to actually, do you know, computing at a new level. That’s why the world changed in that 100 year time span in Super profound ways.
25:48
I mean, that could fundamentally change all the infrastructure around compute, right? Like all of it, I feel like you
25:57
think about, like fiber optics as the way we That’s That’s not how you would transfer entangled information, right? Like it’s a new set of infrastructure, physical, you know, compute, data center, power, all that stuff.
26:11
I mean, I feel like I’ve asked a number of very smart investors on this show if Nvidia will still be the dominant infra player, you know, 10 years from now. And mostly, yes, but I just, you know, it’s hard to predict the time scale for quantum but I just feel like paradigm shifts, take every catch everyone off guard in new ways, and that’s why the S and P is different than it was 10 years ago and 50 years ago. You know, in many cases, none of the same names.
26:42
That’s right. I mean, what is it? Half of them turn over every I don’t know, five or seven years, right? Like already, and in this world, I think you’re right. I mean, who knows is the answer? I you know, no crystal ball about it, but there will be new companies that are really in strong positions that really take advantage of these intersections.
26:59
Okay, so it’s a perfect segue here. The next thing I had written down is, you know, as you think about the next decade, what’s one trend or belief in venture that you think will be completely irrelevant 10 years from now? Oh,
27:13
gosh, I guess I’d probably say there’s something about the where you have to do it thing, right? I think sort of the ecosystems of geographies, right? That that sort of belief system, you’ll be able to do, you know, great startups anywhere in the world. I think that will be gone. I think that probably the more interesting one is, like the asset class of venture, you know, today it’s thought of as risky, and, you know, you know, sort of swing big, or, you know, go big, or go home as an asset class. And I just think that’s going to evolve in 10 years. You know, Vanguard invented the index fund right to make investing in public markets more stable and safe. There’s no reason that that sort of thing wouldn’t happen in venture. All mature asset classes eventually learn that, you know, diversification matters. And I feel like you’re just going to see venture become like a more of a science than an art in about a decade’s time. I think that’s a possibility.
28:07
A few here to wrap up, David, if we could feature anyone on the show, who do you think we should interview and what topic would you like to hear them speak about?
28:15
I’m sure my mom would love to be on your show. I think you know, I would be fascinated by maybe this is like way out there, but somebody you know, like a Warren Buffett, right on venture capital, right? Does he think we’re just all a bunch of idiots, or does he think that it is evolving into an asset class? Does he think that it’s viable, right? Or is it gambling or speculating, as he would call it. I think that would be fascinating to hear about
28:40
David, what book, article or video would you recommend to listeners?
28:44
Oh, Brad Feld just published give first philosophy and business. I love it. I’ve tried to live it. It’s a Tech Stars value and mantra, I think, as a business philosophy, it’s game changing. So I’d recommend
28:54
that we just had them on. It was awesome. It was an incredible discussion. David, do you have any habits or behaviors that are a secret weapon.
29:02
Don’t know if it’s a secret weapon. I, I’m a big believer in, you know, sort of adding value to to networks, right? And virtuous cycles around networks. You know, I give, obviously, Tech Stars is a big network endeavor. I’m involved there, you know, I just feel like I know so many people in so many places, you know this, this aces, GP community, I’ve been sort of getting involved in and just trying to add value to them as a way of giving first to them. I’ve seen it really come back and pay off in very unexpected ways that aren’t transactional. So try to try to do that, and feel like that’s really helped me in my life and
29:37
career. And finally, here, what’s the best way for listeners to connect with you and founders to learn more about TechStars.
29:43
Oh, you know, it’s just techstars.com My email is just David techstars.com I think, I think the kids are still using email, so that works fine, but I’m on. I’m on all the social thingies as well, and pretty easy to find,
29:55
all right. Well, he is David Cohen, the the firm is tech star. HOURS. David, thank you for joining us again, and best of luck with early adulthood, I guess, now that you’re past the awkward teenage years,
30:07
thank you so much. Great to be with you.
30:14
All right, that’ll wrap up today’s interview. If you enjoyed the episode or a previous one, let the guests know about it, share your thoughts on social or shoot them an email. Let them know what particularly resonated with you. I can’t tell you how much I appreciate that some of the smartest folks in venture are willing to take the time and share their insights with us. If you feel the same, a compliment goes a long way. Okay, that’s a wrap for today, until next time, remember to over, prepare, choose carefully and invest confidently. Thanks so much for listening.
