Willy Schlacks of EquipmentShare joins Nick to discuss The Ins and Outs of EquipmentShare’s $6B IPO, The Construction Job Site in 10 Years, Where AI Thrives and Struggles to Solve Complex Problems, and Roll Ups in the VC Space. In this episode we cover:
- The IPO Process and Preparation
- Differences Between Public and Private Market Investors
- Stock Performance and Direct Listing Considerations
- Advice for Early-Stage Founders
- Investing in Personal Growth
- The Role of AI and Data in Construction
- Future of the Job Site
- Managing Fear and Creativity
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0:17
Willy Schlacks is back, joining us from Columbia, Missouri. He’s the Co-Founder and President of EquipmentShare, a construction technology and equipment rental company transforming how contractors manage their fleets through connected hardware and software solutions. EquipmentShare recently went public on Nasdaq, raising $747M at over a $6B valuation. Willy, congratulations and welcome back!
0:42
Thank you. Yeah. Appreciate you having me back. Nick It’s good to be
0:47
here so so equipment chair went public. Of course, congratulations on that. Not all companies choose to go public, particularly in the last five to seven years or so. Why was it the right decision for a corporate chair?
1:03
Well, the question begs a really thoughtful answer, but I am not entirely sure that thoughtful is the is the thing that precipitates in a high growth company when you’re sort of deciding about the future, because the future is quite evolutionary. What we did know is we were always going to be in a growth mindset and growth mode, because our ambition, what we’re solving for, is quite large. This North Star is, is not something you know, we we would achieve within our lifetime, which is what I love. I love, sort of the impossible problems of you know, they persist past years, so you get to really, really lean in. But as far as the motivations for going public, you know, those were evolving. But at the end of the day, it made a lot of sense for retention employees and being in the public markets, access to capital cost, reduction of capital and interest rates and all these other things. And then the we, we really, my brother and I like competition. We like sort of the, you know, if you’re going to be in something, be in the arena that’s the best. And that felt, you know, like we were moving that direction too. We, we always like to aspire to be the best in the world at whatever we’re gonna put our minds to. Again, it’s that reach and be going public like a natural evolution for all those
2:35
things, good stuff. So we have many founders in the audience, some of which have raised B, C, D, rounds, and have thought about this process and have not been through it. Maybe you could start us out, you know, just taking us behind the scenes a bit, you know, when did the IPO process really start, and what was the most important priority to be prepared for?
2:59
I think most companies, if you’ve got, if you’ve raised venture capital, you’ve got investors who are sort of whispering in your ear about, hey, you know, this is absolutely the conclusion that you should be focused on. And the difference, I think, for a founder, is that, you know, they they see this not as a conclusion, but they start to see this in a different light, as it’s just a waypoint as part of the journey. So as far as actually really leaning in, I think the whole fact era caught us by surprise, but there was a ton of inbound interest. Obviously, it’s, you know, in hindsight, you had a ton of SPACs. They just desperately needed something to reverse, merge into. And any company with high growth and great EBITDA margins and profitability was a bit of a diamond in the rough, but the period was so inflationary from values perspective that, or a valuation perspective that, yeah, they’re, you know, SPACs just emerged into anything that was breathing practically, sometimes not. And, you know, everything sort of collapsed year or so later. But we so it was just these waves of interest as far as our motivations, because we’re high growth at that point, you know, we had, we had gotten past a billion dollars in revenue. And the compliance of being public, it ratchets up. You have PTO B compliance criteria that’s definitely far more rigorous than if you’re a company with no revenue. Like going public with no revenue is quite simple. Going public with over a billion dollars in revenue is a different scenario, and you really want to be prepared for that. And it’s building out the team, it’s building out all your systems and process. And that did take time, and it was good, like I would highly recommend it, because it is. Not a yes, it’s an effort that has legitimacy to most of it, but no, fundamentally, it is a very good process for a company to go through, and we learned a ton
5:17
anything that surprised you.
5:19
Willie, we kind some some things. Yes, I think you come you show up with perceptions of who the experts are, and then by the time you you wrap up this process, you have a deep understanding of where the expertise lies. And there’s an obvious statement here that being public, it’s not terribly different than being private. If you want to fundamentally know what is good, because a good company that has a great product and customer demand and grows and, you know, has the capability of building teams and the culture that reflects that. It doesn’t matter where you are in history or in the sphere private or public, that is all that matters fundamentally. Now there’s a lot of trimmings and then process that do come along with the necessity of going public for good reason. So you learn about all that. But yeah, on the other side of it, what I would say is the expert should be you after you get through this. And that’s also fun, because you learn a ton, but the perception of who our experts, I think, changes quite a bit by the time you get through it. So what did
6:33
you What did you find was the biggest difference between how public market investors evaluated the business versus the venture in the private
6:40
markets, public market investors, they their level of depth to their
6:51
and urgency around their questions and the need to get to the root of what matters definitely less in the private, you know, fundraising experiences that I had over a decade, you know, it went from, you know, disastrous macro environments to highly inflated macro environments, and private investors would generally reflect that to an extreme, either there was extreme FOMO or, you know, just risk off, regardless of what they were looking at. And occasionally, and I’m deeply grateful for a lot of our investors, because occasionally you find some of those investors that they do have a long view that is super rare. I think every investor says they have a long view, but finding the ones that do is a bit more rare than what you would think, but the public investors, yeah, I, you know, they, by and large, they all seemed incredibly intent and focused and serious on what mattered. And that was refreshing. I like that. Yeah, I had and even now it’s still, there’s a similarity in private public because they’re your investor. They want to get to know you. They want to be there. And the ones, and some of them are even, you know, some are short term, and they’re very honest about that, like, I’m not here forever. I’m here to make some money, and I’m short term, and you need that in the market. And then some, you know, really through, through their past investments, you can tell that they’re long term. They really want to find something that’s differentiated, and that’s how they lean in with the questions, and that’s how they lean in to get to know you. So the boring answer is, it’s not terribly different, but there is a level of rigor and capability in public investors that yeah, you would expect.
8:38
I saw that the stock down 33% on day one. Some may say that you left money on the table, I guess. How do you think about that? In Did you ever even consider doing a direct listing? Or was that not a path for equipment share?
8:54
We never seriously considered a direct listing. You know, we looked at a lot of things, but we wanted, we wanted to bring in new investors. We’re, we were 10 years into our company, you know, very grateful for all of our original investors, but they’re ready to move on because of fun lives, as you would expect, and or a bunch of them who had been in for for so long. So, yeah, no, it was great bringing in new investors, and you can’t really do that unless you have a bit of a public offering. You can’t do that at scale. And, you know, sell a percent of the company. I don’t really mind the bump that occurs. I think what we were trying to do is assess our value in a pragmatic way and let the market decide from there what I wouldn’t want for myself or any investor is sort of to see a declining immediate reaction to that value, which, again, you’re not really in control of all those things. But I think we, we approached it with a lot of pragmatism. You know, we have our sort of Midwestern sense about sensibility around what’s common sense and what. Value means, and then we have, we have such a optimistic view of where we’ll be in the future because of the problem we’re tackling. You know, there’s a $14 trillion industry. We are a drop in the bucket, and yet we have a voracious appetite for solving problems and serving customers like painting that trajectory is not challenging to think about where that goes. But as far as where we’re at today, it’s like, that’s not hard. Let’s be pragmatic. And I think that benefited, you know, our new investors, and I’m happy for that.
10:31
What would you say to early stage founders listening that maybe, I don’t know, five to seven years away from a public offering, you know, aside from the core of you know, focusing on the business and the strategy and the customers and building something meaningful. You know, what would you recommend they think about doing now to set themselves up for that moment?
10:55
Of all the things they could do, the investment in their in themselves, is definitely the one that pays off the most. And what I mean by that is the ability to evolve. Because if you have those ambitions and you want your company to be a growth company that can actually enter the public markets because of that reality, it’s going to reflect you. And if you yourself cannot evolve and grow and enjoy that environment, then you’re not going to get there, or if you do get there, it’s gonna be quite painful. So yeah, the in this field, maybe it feels like cliche, but having been on both sides of this it, you don’t know this until you get past it. But I would fast 1,000% say that, yeah, that you are the constraint of your company, whether you know it or not, whether you and that’s where a little bit of the you know, if you see it and you wonder, but you hope you’re not. You believe you might get past it some other way. You’re not going to like you are that, that log jam, and the ability to see that the sooner the better, and to invest in oneself so you can evolve and change. Because if, if change is not part of who you are, and it starts in the mind. I mean, theoretically, everything’s in the mind, but let’s just say it starts in the mind, your ideas, like, if you haven’t changed, your ideas about you, know, most things in your opinionated about you should, you should really question whether you do have that, that evolving capability, or else you’re saying, No, I’m just really right about everything, and I’ve never seen that so, so regardless of what the ambitions are, This, this ability to, you know, the introspective life that leads to change, I would say, is one of the most powerful things you can really start to lean, learn and adopt. Last time you’re on the program,
12:50
we discussed this very thing. We didn’t get really into specific tactics. So when you say, like investing in yourself, are there any specifics that you did to continue evolving besides just having an open mind? Was it coaching? Is it therapy? Is it something else?
13:12
Maybe I should do those things. I haven’t done any of those, but I’m not saying those are good or bad or anything. This is just my own personal experience. I think for me, everything, everything stems from the ability to stand alone in a bit and see and form a view on what you see. Because it would be nice if I could go to a therapist and they just, you know, do some things. I’m like, oh yeah, this is sweet. Now I’m ready for what’s next, or I have a coach, and they just, you know, tell me the things that’s what’s next. But I don’t think in the maybe there’s folks who have that experience. So I can only speak to my own experience. But yeah, from my own experience, like facing the raw reality of being alone is the most powerful thing, because it happens up here, it’s in your mind and to to distract from that feels, feels like a distraction, like, feels like you’re headed towards, you know, another, another little side trail, again, not these. These things could be levers. Maybe that’s what people should really see them as. But that means it would point you back to this encountering yourself. You’re someone alone and and that becomes enjoyable, like it’s just freaking amazing. It’s, it’s no different than, you know, I say this as a thumb and outdoorsy person. My wife would just laugh, if she already May is this analogy, because I don’t get enough time outdoors, but it’s like if you’re on that adventure out in the woods, and it’s just there’s only horizon, and somehow, somehow everything disappears except for that horizon, and things start to make sense, and the simplicity of life starts to emerge. And. I don’t think that happens when you’re sort of running to others to get the answers. You don’t realize how much you have. And for an entrepreneur to whether it’s the ambition of going public or building a massive company or transforming an industry, what you have to realize is the power that’s in you is just shockingly amazing, and you don’t run around and get it from somewhere outside, like there’s no there’s no pod at the end of a rainbow that’s gonna go but yeah, here’s Nick
15:32
how would you get yourself in that headspace? Is it exercise? Is it, you know, morning walks? Is it meditation or, you know?
15:40
So I wish I did more of Yeah, I wish I did more of all those things. I do a little bit of those things. I wish I did more of it. So I think those things are good. I think too, you have to also confront what you want. Because I know so many people that think that what they want is not good, and that fundamentally feels a little bit wrong to life. So because if you want something, you’re going to pursue it, but if you fundamentally feel misaligned with what you want, then guess what? You’re misaligned like it, you’re going to keep going around in circles. So for whatever, you know, everyone’s got different journeys of how they process this information or their life and how it comes out in, you know, the perception of themselves and how they compose reality. But I think for me, a lot of it is, is facing that, what do I want? And when I first asked those questions, I was like, shit. I don’t know. And that’s a little bit terrifying, because, like, I’m doing all this stuff. How could I not want it and but to push like you just keep pushing, push, push, push. Because there’s something, I bet there is something that you can discover, and it’s probably not at your fingertips, and if it isn’t your fingertips, then step back and see it for what it is. But for me, yeah, that asking questions and enjoying the the shocking reality of those questions and the aloneness of it is is quite exhilarating. That sounds weird, but it is. I really enjoy it in the sense that so many things are some of the other things are easier. Like it’s, you know, getting out there and exercising. Everyone should do it. But it’s also, yeah, I can put that on my calendar and go do that, but asking what I want, and realizing and inspecting those the answers that emerge if they’re even answered, because probably what
17:43
emerges is more questions. What does Willie schlacks Want You know, if you’re willing to share, you know, what answers did you find when you went through this introspective set of questions?
17:55
Yeah, it’s not a satisfying answer, I think, for most people who really hear but there’s a lot of tendrils on it, but the the answer that ultimately emerged for me was I have what I want, and that, to me, was shocking, because how can you have what you want and still want? And then it begs the question of, well, what the hell is now and what does time mean? Like, what is the future and what is the past? And I also really enjoy those questions too. We could get off into metaphysics and other stuff, but, um, yeah, yeah, the the answer surprised me. Ultimately, it wasn’t a quick one either. Like, you know, there’s a whole laundry list of things that I muddled over before I encountered that one. But, yeah, it is, and maybe it changes, you know, but that’s the one that really locked in and was quite surprising.
18:56
Yeah, it’s amazing when we we think back to when we were children. And imagine, you know, what does success look like for me, right? And I think, you know, if I was 12 or 15 again, I always had dreams of being an entrepreneur, and I happen to be one, but one who invests in entrepreneurs. And I think I would have been, you know, thrilled to to see like, you know, the business that I run and and, maybe more importantly, the family that I’ve built and, etc. And so it’s, it’s funny, we don’t often step back and say, you know, what, what did we really want? What do we really want, you know, it’s just kind of the endless
19:42
climb we should be able to really observe and feel change in that too, because to think that a lot of those underlying motivations happen when we’re young, like you said, but to to think that we have, we’re still. Only locked into that is, is what many folks you know, don’t expect or realize that that is the motivator. But it’s not really crystallized as far as what it means. It’s just this feeling and these urges and, you know, this push, but to to recognize that the want is a choice, and that when the choice of what I have matches what I want, like, Whoa, did I just win the lottery? And because that, that fills quite a void. No, I don’t, I don’t know what’s on the other side of that, because I’m, you know, I still feel such a strong desire to create and build. So then I realized that, yeah, these I want something is not necessarily married up to this desire to create, because that, in and of itself, is the one, you know, it’s like when I get worries and problems, it’s like, geez, I’m lucky to be alive for this. Totally like this. This is incredible. And so obviously this theme of perspective is generally what emerges. And I like that, because I think we are in control far more than we realize.
21:16
Well, living in that journey, day to day, of the challenge, in the growth, in the learning, like, that’s a motivating thing, just itself. It’s it’s such a wonderful thing to be a part of. But I do want to ask you more about the business. So maybe a decent place to start on that is with roll up strategies. So they worked really well in private equity, and more recently, have become quite popular in the venture space. Companies are acquiring local service providers, streamlining process and tech and operating much more efficiently. Based on my read of the s1 equipment share was over 98% organic growth versus acquisition. Why did you pursue, you know, inorganic growth approach over just a roll up of other equipment companies?
22:09
Probably because we didn’t really start off when we built this company. Day one was not, hey, we’re building an equipment rental company that was simply a platform and a means to really serve customers. The thought and the inception was, all right, there’s this problem we’ve experienced in the industry. Or how big is it? It’s a $14 trillion industry, and how big is this problem? Everyone has it. So that being the thought, there was no you know solution of, oh, we could just buy the answer to that. There was no answer, because we experienced that problem for decades, building within this industry, and now we were, we were very we gravitated towards equipment rental, because one of the areas where we we felt this most severely, and so it naturally became a platform for us. But yeah, it’s never been where we saw these domains as destinations, they are platforms to serve and really learn and evolve and build these solutions out. And I think that’s why we’ve, you know, at our evolution today, we’ve got this, this whole technology layer, this operating system, that sort of underpins, you know, our distribution and that will keep evolving. But that is not the easiest way to build an equipment rental company. The easiest way to build an equipment rental company is go raise a bunch of money from people, buy, merge, and you’re done, and then you can just sort of walk away and go, Hey, that was great, but that’s all you did. You built a financial outcome for you and some other folks, and that is boring, like just to do something that simply merges what exists, actually, hopefully that doesn’t sound negative. I’m sure there’s a reason for why people do this, but it doesn’t, it doesn’t feel like it fundamentally solves your customer problems, like every day your customer you know they’re for us. You know our customers in the construction industry, they’re building roads and bridges and homes and data centers and all this stuff, and we deeply understand that chaos, because that’s what we did, you know, for decades, since we were kids. So there’s this visceral connection with our customers, and we think about what it means to be, you know, putting up steel when it’s six degrees outside, and you’re up on a sizzle lift, and then you drop the washer, and you can barely move your fingers like we know what all that feels like. So for us just to go, Hey, let’s, let’s merge some companies together and walk away, it wasn’t a thought that ever bounced around our head, because would be the point that adventure is not terribly fulfilling, because the customer still left there, and nothing’s really changed with their lives. So yeah, my brother and I, we deeply resonate with our our customers and and. And the urgency that drives us is, is that we see how big the the opportunity and problem, you know, two sides of the same coin, and how much more we can do. And that’s yeah. So it Yeah, 2% was not organic, because certainly we’re going to make smart choices about how we buy assets, but by and large, everything that we choose is around meeting that customer demand and really solving our problems.
25:31
So you had mentioned this is a $14 trillion problem that comprises people, materials and machines. With regards to the materials and the machines components. Are there opportunities to move up the supply chain in either and is that part of the plan?
25:50
Yeah, we see this in in two different domains. One is on the technology side. That’s obvious, where our operating system is extensible to the industry. So different personas, and, you know, types of companies absolutely will be using it beyond just, you know, equivalent distribution. And then there’s, there’s the other side, which is distribution. And we take a vertical approach, because we’ve never believed that you could simply somehow build for this industry, you know, build some technology, and then people just show up and it’s, it’s going to be adopting the right thing. Because fundamentally, we felt there was no, there was no platform like building narrow niches of software wasn’t intriguing to us, because we didn’t really think that would ever create a Connect, disconnect of tissue across an industry. And what I mean that, what I mean by that is that you have, like any industry, goods and services that flow through, and then ultimately, you know, end up in this project environment where you’re building something and the supply chain of goods. And then, you know, the services that get orchestrated is highly complex, and then it’s highly complex, and the end result, because the end result is a project environment, not a fixed manufacturing environment, or retail or, you know, like every other industry, which is, you wire it up and don’t change it in this environment, everything is a proof of concept. Every new project is literally different than the last one. So the platform that enables that connectivity of goods and then orchestration of services has to reflect that, that it has go pretty deep. At its depth, it’s going to be very primitive, rooted and simple, but the composition of it has to be incredibly flexible, because as to meet the needs of all these, you know, entities where this flows through, the ultimate manifestation of any operating system platform is a marketplace, a digital marketplace. And that’s simply because the analog marketplaces have always existed for 6000 years. You know, as soon as a human could go, Hey, give me that, and I’ll give you this. You got a marketplace so to enhance that environment, because construction runs just fine, if you think about, you know, agnostic of a digital environment, but if you introduce a digital environment, then you go, Wait, we could be a lot more efficient and better if we could actually measure instantaneously, everything at the same time. But then, then the question is, well, how would you do that? Because it’s so disconnected. So the answer is, operating system platform level capabilities. So to get back to your question, there’s really two, two paths here. One is, you know, their operating system platform that we run our business on, and then the distribution on top of that, and we’ve gone very vertical with equipment rental, because we never thought that somehow, one, we would build the right thing immediately, or two, that the industry would be happy to adopt something different and new. Because if things work from a monetary perspective, like, if you’re a big company, make it a billion dollars of cash flow, and you’re sitting down and going, Hey, let’s change everything. Nobody’s gonna agree to that. No one’s gonna sign up. So because we knew it took that appetite of, hey, let’s change everything, we went vertical. And that’s what has revolved in this really sizable platform and growth on the distribution side, in addition to our investment in the technology platform.
29:26
You know, many in the space have talked about this massive skilled labor shortage in construction. Is that a headwind? Is that a tailwind? You know, how do you size that up?
29:39
I’m the worst person to ask about these things, because I’m so optimistic about solutions to problems. Like, I’m like, Okay, we’ll figure it out. Like, who, when have we ever not, as humans, figured it out now that is not a problem we’re tackling head on. So I assume other people are, but I’m, I’m, you. Yeah, I think it is right in the sense that it is absolutely one of the more obvious headwinds that’s starting to emerge. And I think what that’s going to do is just create a lot of opportunity for folks to come up with solutions to it. And there’s obviously a lot of speculation around the emergence of AI and automation and humanoids that could ultimately fill the gap of one feature, and that’s somewhat indeterminate as far as timeline. But whether it’s those things or efficiency that are gained, or even a huge labor shift from white collar to more blue collar, the future of humans does look a lot more where we are. We’re doing things that we’re developing a craft. If we go 2030, years in the future like there, there’s far less need to sit at a desk in the future, far more of an opportunity to actually experience in human life where you’re using all your faculties to create, and that’s probably in a craft area or something. So so that that’s way out there. That’s that’s the direction we’re headed, which is great. You know, all these changes with AI, and, you know, technology developments are only going to accelerate that path. And I don’t mind that. I think these are all good things.
31:21
So you mentioned AI earlier in the interview. You also talked about, kind of the the importance of having data and having insights on what’s actually happening on a site, right? You’ve got the end customer of the site. You got developers, you got GCS, subs, AECs, project managers. You know, it’s messy, right? Talk to us a bit about the opportunity for AI and equipment share in the segment. And how do you get the, how do you extract the data that’s required in order to, you know, really drive value and drive sort of observability. You know, on a construction site, you have
32:04
to eat away at it as a first thing, because it’d be easy. If we were just theorizing about this. We could just come up with a couple things that are patterned in other industries and go, you know, Okay, we’re done. Tick that box and move on. But if we want to think about the reality of, you know, we see the company every day and the pragmatic, realistic path that’s going to happen, you’re eating away at it, because all the future is a platform approach, but we’re not there yet. So it does mean that you enable visibility, and you’re sort of turning on visibility to certain sectors, but they have to, they have to be somewhat holistic and make sense. So even for us, we don’t expect customers to only use us. Now, a lot of times where we really excel is certainly in Mega set environments, because, you know, our technology platform really just gives us an advantage to drive value to complex, large job site environments. We really shine in those environments. So there’s definitely an advantage there. There’s a real time data insight, availability and, you know, connectivity, that we can bring to far more than just simply renting equipment. So that’s good. But, yeah, I think, I think as when you’re in it, it feels incremental, and it’s only when we sort of look in hindsight and you see the overall impact of that incremental move, and you go, oof, wow. That was, you know, look at this arc over five years, but yeah, that today feels like, yeah, we’re just chipping away at a new edge. Now what I do like is that we’re doing it. We’re chipping away. Because back when my brother and I were building companies in this industry. It felt like nobody was chipping away at this. It was just like, holy cow. This is the same thing as 10 years ago, but, and the momentum of that means nothing changes. It was there was such a stasis in that built environment. And the built environment is different than the design, you know, phase of like architectural prints and drawings and all that that’s largely a content, you know, digital environment, but so I think AI is massively supportive and helpful for data transformation and interoperability. What AI is not good at is deterministic functions. So you still need an underlying operating system that is deterministic, and on top of that, AI becomes even more enhanced. And we, you know, we’re, we’re constantly building out features and capabilities for sales and our customers, you know, leveraging and learning about, you know, what’s next. But the the, the the second side of that is, is when you have a repository of data that’s content based, an example would be, why do machines fail? Like, why does this machine fail? How do you fix it? That’s also another prime spot for AI to extract value and deliver that to you know, both sides of the coin of operating. Institutions and customers. Yeah, the ability to measure day one and then extract insights from this environment is it’s definitely changed now than it was five years ago. And it’s amazing to live during this time too, just to be part of something that’s an order of magnitude shift. It’s, yeah, I don’t know what it’s done for you. What do you think? I’m sure there’s similar things where it’s just like everything feels like it’s changing. It’s amazing.
35:30
What do you think the job site looks like in five years? You know now that people are chipping away at this, including yourselves, whether it be autonomous sites, predictive equipment, health, you know, fusion of the digital and physical world, like, what does the job site look like in five years?
35:48
Yeah, I think five years. We’re always a little optimistic. I think 10 years is where we underestimate. So let’s call it 10 years out, because that’s okay. You know, a little more speculation. But generally speaking, when there’s momentum, 10 years is underestimated.
36:03
It’s the right timeframe for the venture investors out there.
36:08
Yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean, even some of our jobs are, you know, they’re five year jobs, so you just get to project number two by that time. But yeah, on that 10 year horizon, the direction that we’re headed in, There absolutely are platforms, or a platform that has emerged, which means you have answers to supply and demand that is instantaneous. What that means is that, say you want to build a house, you’re going to have, you know, it’ll be very easy for you to articulate what type of house you want, where you want it, and there won’t be friction around. How would I build this? Who would build it and where are the things to build it? That’s all going to be at your fingertips. If you want a certain type of window, you’re going to know what type of window is the best window, and where it’s in stock and how long it will take to get there, six months before you even build the house. If you want to know who is the best flooring contractor in the area, you’ll have so much data and intelligence on who is the best foreign contractor based on the history of track record, not just simply on, you know, AdWords, so, and that is simply, all I’m doing is describing the outcome of a platform, an operating system, and the digital marketplaces that start to emerge. And it’s hard to imagine that not happening now. What is difficult to imagine is all the other things that we can’t match it. So that’s the stuff we underestimate. And it’s easy to go and sort of apply patterns that we see elsewhere. And that is transformational in and of itself, because if you take and assume there’s at least a 10% increase in productivity output. That’s another trillion dollars of output for free that you get from an industry for free. Like, where can you find? A trillion dollars just go. It’s there. And that’s just 10% I’m using round numbers here for sake of you know, example, but that’s just a 10% increase in output. Platforms, by and large, historically, have had far more dramatic than simply a 10% increase in output. So that’s where, you know, our speculation Can, can be a little bit sloppy and run wild, but also not be fantastic enough, because it probably the economic impact to, you know, countries and humans and all that is, is pretty remarkable at that point, because I think we’re also dealing with the what, what I do know for certain is the human appetite is insatiable. So we can check that box like we’re never going to be satisfied. And what that means is simply that we’re always going to have demand for goods and services, because I think a lot of people go, Wait, you’ll have to work in the future. And, you know, everything’s done like we just sit in a couch and go, Okay, I’ll DoorDash is good. It’s like no humans are so creative at a visceral level for their appetites, because as soon as they taste, they want something more that’s transformed different, or, you know, fill in the blank. That’s a good thing. That’s not a bad thing, because it drives our creativity and it satiates curiosity and creativity, and so those are all good things. So we are working in the future versus the dystopian views of nobody’s working, and, you know, half the population is out of a job. I don’t really think that’s that’s real. What we can’t imagine is all these creative things we’ve come up with to fill our curiosity and our insatiable appetites. And I don’t say that in a negative sense. I say that insatiable appetite in a very positive human sense, like that’s a good part of you know who we are. So that’s the stuff I’m really excited to see emerge, because what it also means is that humans have more choice. And if they have more choice, they’re going to they’re going to start asking the question of, what do I want? They’re going to realize that, wait, what if that void is not there? And the real question is, what I want to create? Yeah, the answer to that is fucking anything, and that is just off and running well,
40:05
and humans can spend more time on things that they’re truly interested in and good at, as opposed to just, you know, what pays the bills and what helps them
40:15
get by, hopefully for for humans, the fear, I mean, this will take more than 10 years, because we’ve got, you know, God knows how many years of this embedded in our DNA. But the fear is such a part of our motivator. I mean, it is so deep Nobody escapes us today, literally nobody. It is such a part of our motivator that we don’t even know what that looks like a world where humans are not motivated as fear is one of the underlying you know, sticks that sort of focus, like you might run out of money, or what you shelter you need a bigger house, or whatever like, or what do you look like to your neighbors, or status, or all it like so much of that is fear driven. And fear is the worst corrupter of creativity like it just strangles it. So what? Where you and I will have no ability to predict the future is the absolute, shocking, amazing reality of humans that are no that are not so intertwined with fear, but they’re actually free to create. The things they’re going to create are just going to be shocking.
41:23
To us. How does one manage that? You know, it is evolutionary built into our DNA. You know, how do you manage the fear and reduce its impact so that your mind is free to be as creative as it
41:39
can be? I try to circle back around on it and go, Well, I’m fine with that, you know, and defang it, because I, if you push against it, you know, it just sort of reinforces it. I also recognize that, yeah, you’ve got, you know, however many, you know, whatever somebody subscribes to, as far as the millions of years of humans running around in caves and, you know, running away from animals and fear that’s just innate to our daily behavior. It’s there. It’s so embedded. So I see it more as a I’m not trying to be the human of 100 years from now. So I want to just see who I am today. And I think when you see it, it loses its fangs, and then you can sort of laugh at it and, you know, see what tomorrow ranks. But, yeah, I don’t, I’m not trying to put up any huge layups for myself. As far as you know, evolutionary human steps here. I think it’s just enjoyable to recognize. I like recognizing and and speculating, you know, because the speculation for me always leads to it’s just surprising how incredible that future is. And the the more I you know, the more I spend time speculating about that, the sillier the dystopian views look. Even though I’m I’m a sucker for a dystopian, you know, story, I love it because it goes back to our survival, like there’s nothing more meaningful than survival. So we all love having to survive, and it’s so freaking easy, because you never have to ask any questions. You just go, I’m running from that freaking thing that’s going to kill me, and then to make up whatever the hell it is. But you do not have to be introspective. Everything is external. And, you know, just starting to fire is like, yeah, job well done. Good. Okay, now I’m, I’m a worthy thing. But if you, if you sort of push that aside and you, you you think about the non dystopian future, you know the what could exist is it’s just mind blowing. So I’m excited for that, right?
43:51
Just a few quick wrap up questions here. Willie, what book, article or video would you recommend to listeners?
43:57
Well, since I brought up Lincoln, I the author of a Team of Rivals. His name is Doris Kern, yeah. Don’t look it up. Team arrivals of the book. Doris, I think, is the is the lady who wrote that amazing author, like, absolutely love that, love that book. But just to put a put a cliff note on, on the fact that you know his, when I think about the how much I admire, you know who that person is, she’s very influential in that, you know she, she did so much work to uncover sort of the raw story and narrative by piecing together all These other perspectives from folks around him. And the title of the book is just, you know, spot on, because, at the end of the day, if you’re trying to describe, you know, who LinkedIn is, he was this politician who ended up with a Team of Rivals. And think about in this modern era that we live in our generation, like what politician has as part. Part of their cabinet and confidants, folks who were enemies in their minds, like who were against this person, but because of the maturity and thoughtfulness, they came around to see things. And they wanted to, they wanted to get on your bandwagon. They said, hey, you know, in other words, people are changing around you because of just the life that you’re living. It’s, it has, it’s not happening. Now, I can tell you that, like we, we couldn’t come up with a short list of anybody, and in, you know, leadership that that it’s, it’s the opposite, again, not trying to discount the humans that are there. It’s a hard job to do, but someone like that is so once and not a generation, but a century type thing that I hope I live long enough to see it happen again, because that’d be pretty special to watch. But, yeah, it’s great book. Highly recommend it, just because it’s on my mind, since we’re talking about him and she did
46:00
phenomenal job. Willie, do you have any habits that are a secret weapon?
46:06
My gut reaction is no that also doesn’t feel right now, I think what I would say are the things that I couldn’t do without are, I don’t know that. I’d describe them as habits. Would describe them more as the ceremony of life. Like, you know, in the morning I wake up, have my coffee. Maybe there’s a fire, and if I’m having coffee with my wife, like that ceremony. There’s not a lot of other things in life that would want more than that. And then when you realize what you want is what you have, it just makes it even bit better, like it’s just so magical. But yeah, when I when I think about the habits I should have that’s sort of a negative pattern of mine. So I, you know, I, I’m sure most people don’t struggle with this, but I’m like, oh, I should be doing more things, you know, I should get out there and run every day, or do more of this and that. So the the new thing for me is, is really finding the ceremonies that are just like, holy cow, this is just when you so more and more of your day, you’re just encountering your own fantasy, and you just feel incredible to be alive for this. So the more it’s like, yeah, this happens every day. It becomes this thing that, whether it’s a habit or a ceremony, I don’t care. I’m not great with the word habit, because, you know, yeah, that that’s me, though, but I’m putting a new label on it. And yeah, the those, any, anything that happens every day that feels like that, like, yeah, that’s, that’s a foundation you can
47:59
do quite a bit on Awesome. Well, every conversation with you, Willie is a is a moving experience. I’m so glad that you joined us again. Congrats again on the IPO and all the success, and looking forward to hearing more in a couple of years.
48:14
Thank you, Nick. Appreciate it. Yeah, really appreciate you having me on and yeah, really enjoyed this. Thank you, sir.
48:25
All right, that’ll wrap up today’s interview. If you enjoyed the episode or a previous one, let the guest know about it. Share your thoughts on social or shoot them an email. Let them know what particularly resonated with you. I can’t tell you how much I appreciate that some of the smartest folks in venture are willing to take the time and share their insights with us. If you feel the same, a compliment goes a long way. Okay, that’s a wrap for today. Until next time, remember to over prepare, choose carefully and invest confidently. Thanks so much for listening.
