270. Retail Apocalypse or Renaissance, the Commerce Evolution, and Fundraising from Corporates (Vincent Diallo)

Vincent Diallo of Interlace Ventures joins Nick to discuss Retail Apocalypse or Renaissance, the Commerce Evolution, and Fundraising from Corporates. In this episode, we cover:

Walk us through your background and path to VC
What’s the thesis at Interlace?
COVID has affected commerce severely — for better and for worse. Has this changed your investment approach?
Many investors are avoiding all physical retail as COVID has created a “retail apocalypse”, but you’ve stated that you see it more as a retail renaissance. Why?
What are some trends from COVID that you think investors are overreacting to that you expect will return to pre-pandemic levels?
What new consumer experiences or behaviors are emerging that you are excited about?
You mentioned supply chain as another area of interest, where are the biggest opportunities in the supply chain?
Biggest mistake fundraising? Biggest win fundraising?
Oper8tor program?
Is now a good time or a difficult time to be a diverse fund manager?

Guest Links:

Transcribed with AI:

0:00
Vincent Diallo joins us today from San Francisco. He’s managing partner at Interlace Ventures an early stage venture fund investing in commerce technology. Prior to Interlace, he was co-founder and partner at Blue Capital and the CFO at Synovus. Vincent, welcome to the show.

0:15
Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. It’s such a pleasure,

0:18
pleasure for us. yak, can you talk us through your background and your path to venture?

0:22
Sure. It’s actually, as I’m, as I’m used to see is quite accidental. In a way that I didn’t plan to come to venture at any time or to land in San Francisco and started to invest in some startups. What happened to me is that when I started my career, I would say, in a very traditional way, at least from from a French perspective, and maybe, maybe start with this, I’m French, and I grew up in France, I was born and raised there. And I started my career in Paris working for Deloitte. This, I would say, lots of opportunities to discover business practice. This firm, that is amazing, but it’s not the most exciting work, as everybody knows, especially that I was an auditor, that for a couple of years, I think is I was completely passionate about China and Chinese culture and so on. So at some point, I told them has to go, I have to I have to go to China. Yeah, I ended up working in a in a Chinese, in a factory in China in the middle of Guangdong, that was kind of a human experience. I mean, I think I think all my partners at Deloitte were like, What the hell are you gone? Crazy? Yes, I was, I was 26 years old and a little bit unconscious. Anyway, really, after a human experience there. So I still live with less than a little bit less than then two years. And I managed to business but at some point I wanted, I wanted to go back to what I call civilization, which is having coffee in the morning and bread, very important for a Frenchman. So I went to Shanghai and a couple of doors and Deloitte open the door, and ended up working for them for like four or five years with this kind of Indian engines hat, where I got involved in a couple of acquisition project in central China. European clients willing to acquire production capacity in in central China, that was the moment that you 1000 2006 2010, a couple of these projects, super exotic, little resonance with a book that is called Mr. China, which is the story of the first investment from the first American investment fund in China, where they kind of lose everything. Very, very exotic practice over there. Very funny, actually, lots of war stories over there, but ended up becoming after four years of good work for China, I became the CFO of one of the largest independent importer of input and distributor of Western food product, French people importing food product in China, you can imagine there’s a lot of cheese product, of course, and we served on that way, we grew the business from 50 to $200 million, we exited it to a listed company. And that’s where the venture opportunities thought, because the founder of that company became super rich French guy, 20 years in China, probably enough of China’s that he moved to New York. And from there as he finishes Ethernet and so on, just called me and asked me what I wanted to invest some of his money in tech assets. And that was such an opportunity, I didn’t know really what he was talking about. So I jumped on a plane to New York, and discovered this, this opportunity and, and as I do like, for as I usually do, full of passion and, and, and I would say, again, a little bit unconscious, super risk lover. I said, Yes, let’s do it. And then I took another plane to go to San Francisco and that that’s where it all started when 2015 summer of 2015. I’m not very clear about what a startup is. I’m not very clear, but what what is a venture fund, but nevertheless have a few million dollars to invest and let’s do it and that was completely crazy, completely epic. But I mean, that’s how I that’s how we did things back in the days in China. I mean, you don’t have the food rationality, the whole visibility. You just go and and you dive in urine swimming, and you learn by doing and that’s exactly what we did, actually invited my buddy Joe joined the adventure from day one because I knew I will need a sparring partner in this exercise and Joe was an obvious choice of with the heart and and, of

5:05
course, the skills and background again. he’s a he’s a Swiss Army knife, former developer, former star Tupper consultant in strategy. He had everything and we met at a, I would say, actually significant negotiation. In China, we negotiate together the, the exclusive distribution of Asia, in China. So quite a significant contract. And we realized that we have the same way to conduct business, same values. And when I was looking for patterns exercise, the guy was so obvious. And when I proposed to him, he, I think it took him like, about 10 seconds to say, Yes, let’s do it. So a little bit as crazy as I. And and, and that’s how we we started this team, managing what would become the seven year phase? And we capital, yeah, this is liquid capital. Exactly. So we created the whole concept, the whole practice, within the portfolio of 11 companies to sort of

6:14
sector focus Did you have there?

6:16
Well, we just had a few million dollars. So I could not go on a run or be run at the way that would have been one investment. So of course, we were super early stage investor. So again, a kind of a proof of concept for us. So the idea was merge idea with the exposure, but visit certain conditions, which actually was $4 million. We did with 11, investments, certain concentration. What can I say around that? Yeah, it was at the beginning was a white page, but we quickly realized that we have to focus on something we understand the best I mean, which is, which is commerce and distribution, that was so obvious, I mean, making it making a business decision on on health steak, or a space steak or whatever, take that we don’t understand what it is about. I mean, that was very complicated. So we we focused on that, like naturally, before developing a real business and an SEC the opportunity for for launching I mean, before launching interlace, which is somehow a spinoff of Joseph and I can now definitely familiar faces whenever.

7:27
So you launched in January of 19, it looks like

7:32
exactly, exactly, exactly. That’s the official launch date. Of course, it came with a shoe confirmation of interest and confirmation that we had a bad day the whole idea started in 2018.

7:48
Okay, and then the quick sort of broad strokes on enrollees you know, checks as funny as it sounds like you’re focused on commerce. So yeah.

7:59
Font Size I’m not going to talk too much about it because I think there’s no regulation behind that and and I’m still in the process of growing it put it this way, but very dear secret down more than 10 plus million and we have much more commitment than that we want to be in the range of 20 to 30 million check size we do check between 60 to 500 sweetspot around 250 as initial commitments and objectives to get between two to 7% I mean, depending on the market and at that moment but that’s that that’s the logic generally not leading position but investing preceded we generally arrive with the industry to an end and we are good co investor It is rare for for larger VCs that have maybe missing the industry expertise and realize that we can bring a lot of value that’s that’s the angle preceded because there’s no match notion of the leader to my mind. But yeah, we are so present now. Very good, very good.

9:17
So a portion of that is reserves as well as initial tech checks or

9:21
of course of course of course we do the fish dish the classic reserve yeah I have to say that on this aspect portfolio. structure is fundamental now was more fun, emerging manager I do believe that you have to be a little bit flex in order to to show you access and demonstrate your your relevant to certain years. Take it this way. We are super outsider I mean we not enough a big firm when a successful entrepreneur in the Silicon Valley. We need to demonstrate our, our, our, our value, and then we’re ready for that. I mean, even after five years, if something yet to be proven, so we can be flexible this way. But yeah, the logic is 5050. Let’s see where we learn. We already have seven investment done. And we get to have around 25 to 30. Okay, very good.

10:27
Let’s talk about fundraising briefly, what? What was, what was the biggest mistake? Or maybe the biggest learning during the fundraising process?

10:39
I think, Well, first, we were supergreen. Not really hear about the different categories of LPs. So we were kind of navigating with no visibility on where to put our efforts to we’re trying to shoot in every direction, like, yeah, there is no money there, we can go there. So it wasn’t that very thoughtful strategy, at least at the beginning. And and I think that, that, that creates a little bit of tension to at least the very first month, then we had what we thought is a great strategy. And, and probably, it was an attempt to leverage our our strengths, which is this access to corporate brands, and retailers, because we’ve been working, assuming fmcgs and retainers when we were in China before. So we are thinking these guys have no access to innovation in Silicon Valley and Silicon Valley, and we can build this bridge with this Industry Focus is going to be unique, and the idea is still valid. But when 2018 or 2019, I think a lot of corporate, just starting to establish at least in that industry and establish their I would say their their strategy, access to startups and open innovation in general. And and their first attempt is to go direct with the SEC. And and going through a small form is maybe not maybe not obvious for them. I think today that that is changing. And actually we were benefiting from this change. But at that time, it was it was very difficult to make them come to the decision. So we had many, many, many, many discussion and many interactions. Some of them even said yes, we had some CEOs say yes, we had some owners say yes. And finally the decision for the board at Board of Director level or COMEX level, and probably pretty tough. The reality is that very often, in a in a in a corporation, you’re talking to an innovation director or CVC. manager or director, these guys have no patrimonial approach. They don’t have skin in the game in a way that. Okay, they would take a super big risk to invest in interlace instead of investing in Sequoia. Okay, right. I mean, some of very clever this thing is a big risk other charity where they won’t, they won’t take any any reward. I mean, exactly. If ish. If it goes wrong, they can definitely be blamed for further fader. If thing goes well, they won’t have much reward, at least not much financial reward. So what’s the point for them to take that risk, and that’s what we realized later on. To take a race casing for on an early stage on its energy stage entrepreneur, emerging entrepreneur, emerging fund manager, somebody with doesn’t have much track record can do. I mean, it requires a certain patrimonial dimension behind the decision. People need to really be able to capture the reward and and it did not work at that moment with corporate I think now corporates are ever evolving and European even some carried interest CVC managers and phones pretty good and they also I think they’re more openness around their access for super early stage deals because as we we kept on preaching in the past years. I mean, it’s difficult for for corporate, to access these, these, these deals because if you have a corporation, putting a ticket and preceded the stage I think is is January in generally means that destruction. I’m going to explain why. The reason you care, okay,

15:05
well, I mean, I want to innovate behind the moat, and then when they internally, and then when they see, you know, interesting tech that you’re investing in, that can disrupt them and remove their cash cows. That’s, that’s scary. And that’s a threat. So,

15:20
you know, I, I would add, yeah, two things. The first is that giving such a strategic signal at that early stage, I mean, maybe this trade off for investors to join, because they want the opportunity to really make a very significant returns in strategy, as with the seven, easy access to innovation, so let me make the return a little bit more riskier with that. And second point that, indeed, the startup has a tendency to see this, this investor as maybe a captive client, at the moment, they really struggled to get their first client, and especially when you have a b2b technology, and so they can start to design their product for this client admitting their spec, and then that product is less relevant for the rest of the market. And that’s, so that’s the risk we see. And we we’ve been preaching that and, and retry to come with this value proposal where we will go with that said, let us do the early stage, we have the fake speech, he we have the understanding, we have now the expertise, and when it made sure we have to bring you in no way or another so that you’re you’re able to capture some value early, but not that early know that we let the to let the startup grow. And of course, it has to be completely transparent to the to the founder, because these are the real heroes. I mean, these are the guy who’s gonna put the sweat. And, and these are, I mean, these guys, our priority equation. That’s, that’s what we’re trying to bridge. And that’s actually the whole idea behind interlaced and the name, bringing the courthouse in the customers, as well as the fun Yeah, exactly. Trying to create value by plugging the portfolio to our I would say community that involve some of these that are strategic, you know, when we have these dilemmas, strategy, but a big portion of our strategy, and create value this way by bringing their first customers but also sharing the innovation direction with these corporate partners or with these strategies, and not all corporate media isn’t commerce and retail vdps that that’s a virtuous cycle that you’re able to create, create new value up and down. And that’s, that’s the whole logic. And that’s, that’s why these behind the name, give you a lot of credit, Sir, I’ve

18:09
got a lot of friends in the industry that have raised from corporates. And I’ve never tried, I’ve never pitched a corporate but I know, with a range of decision makers, the more decision makers involved, the more tricky right, we had 42 LPs in our first fund and even with, you know, a wife and a husband scenario, there’s, there’s tricky dynamics, and it’s hard enough to get there, you know, with individuals. But to get there, when you’ve got boards, you’ve got executive teams, you’ve got an internal, you know, sponsor of some sort. That That sounds like a long road. So I give you a lot of credit for for the progress you have made. Vincent, you made a comment about the founders, and how they’re really, you know, the ones doing the hard work and you’re trying to provide value to them, you know, give me a sense for what you guys are looking for in the founding in the partners on the founder side. And you know, how you kind of how you get answers to determine whether, you know, the startup founders are the right partner for you?

19:11
Well, of course, we have a couple of I would say boxes that we need to check and that are quite effective in terms of the product and the vision and strategy but regarding the founding team and the founder so first create our criteria that I’m that I’m that we’re looking at. The first one is is the founder market fit really important for us that people come from the industry understand the dynamic I mean, you don’t reinvent yourself especially stuff supply chain if you’ve never, never been there you never touch it whenever complex especially in commerce and and if you have two years to catch up, what are the best practices in the industry, you’re basically losing the race. To increase the efficiency of the race, so founder market fit was very important than in previous experience and previous experience to the, to the space to the pain. Really, really important for us. Another element, I would say, we second cricketer Yeah, we like people who are visionary, maybe contrary in their shoes followers would love to be surprised by some very controlling vision. And when it when it when are used with if this is where you have significant market opportunities. When they were captured, I’m going to add a search criteria that I that I borrowed from Justin green from Florida, remember listening to one of our podcasts and I found this gray area actually two of them that I found really, really interesting when discipline is something that I I really believe in and try to, I mean, we apply it to our discipline mean doing what you say, and keeping a pace, keeping a routine. Super, super important. So if we have the lecture, we will take the time to observe the behavior of the founder in terms of dealing with set and the regularity of of disinformation. And the second criteria that I bought from from Justin green is magnetism track people, whenever it’s balanced. Investors clients, there’s something special about these guys, you feel like you want to work with them. I mean, it can be super subjective, and I’m completely aware of that. But I love to feel this dimension of well, is this something that attract me towards this person and meet other people. And I’m going to add two other criteria when you greet, have agreed? Let’s be clear, we want to see some work to sitting down and just big figures and big, big announcements around big funding round of big names or big opportunity, which is they get to work down and show me how you have done that. And last but not least, we have a preference for people who have a sound mind and and have been working on their emotional intelligence, because in it, my point here is that with all the ups and downs of a startup, you can totally lose it. It can be very, very assists the roller coaster for you for your mind for your heart for. And so if you’re not able to let go, emotion you can enable to develop the second present. First, I think will not make it because you will miss many opportunities and on top of it, you will not be able to gather a culture and a team that could be necessary to deliver. So yeah, we like people who are come and

23:14
at the same time, a little bit of craziness is cool. That’s fair to say sound you gotta be slightly crazy to do do this. But a bit scammy is crazy.

23:28
So let’s let’s talk about commerce event. Right. That’s kind of the focus of the firm. You know, many investors are avoiding all physical retail right now as COVID has created this retail apocalypse as it’s been called. But you’ve you’ve stated that you see it more as a retail Renaissance Renaissance.

23:47
Why?

23:50
I’m wondering where you saw that but I double down on it actually was before COVID the retail Renaissance? Well, that’s a funny thing. Few years ago, when we were saying we were investing focusing on retail technology, many of you were laughing like this is done over us them and we it’s overcrowded. 10 years ago, that was the statement there’s no opportunity any longer surprisingly, as the COVID will see couple of firms that are developing specific practice around this around his covers technology so we big believer that it’s the commerce and the way we the way the consumer shop actually is in permanent evolution. And and it’s an industry that that calls for novelty permanent opportunity that comes today with COVID. Of course it’s it’s awful so much the way the retailer the brand better for the client because of the necessary hygiene measures. It basically accelerate the whole digital transformation industry at the pace that nobody expected We all know this joke. I mean, who’s the biggest driver of transformation is your CIO? That we saw some some some development that we are not expected before a couple of years. Are you witnessing some investors that you think are overreacting to trends in the pandemic? Well, I will not say so I think I don’t have any specific example in mind. And, and I want to be humble here, it’s really hard to write as an emerging executive, it’s really hard to foresee where the markets gonna go, I mean, of course, you need to have some conviction. But I remember the first month of defending me, we we decided to freeze investment because so many uncertainties and a lack of visibility that we’re like, what what’s gonna happen? now talking about your first question, were around physical retail. I’m still super bullish on physical retail, of course, it’s going to be hard. In the next, I would say 18 to 24 months. But fortunately, that’s not our time. And so, question is, how can a physical retail concept survive with very limited foot traffic for the next 18 months, because that’s, I believe, something that we can expect, even maybe longer. But I believe that will be fixed at some point, if I’m wrong here, but it’s a mistake, how to get a vaccine and get back some good traffic, I think it’s a decent assumption, given the order that the efforts that have been made at this stage and also the adjustment of population behavior. I mean, we seen in many countries, okay, different cultures, they are back to normal, normal to almost normal foot traffic. So it’s gonna come back at some point and, and the reality is for discretionary purchase. At the end of the day, it’s all about experiencing the product in order to validate the discovery. I mean, even if it’s dry today to discover a product on the on the screen, you know, I don’t buy yet this idea of VR commerce super, super immersive and have the equation he can have a full five cents or even maybe an expense simulation at home. But I think that’s what really drive again, discretionary purchase, a tendency to think that non discretionary Yeah, with different ease, which which significantly, online, as somehow are the direction that is taken these days, even though they’re still a little issue on pricing, because of the cost of last night. This is fixable. On the back. I mean,

28:04
what about like the metaverse in purchasing in the metaverse? You know, as a proxy for being in person? Do you think about that? Or do you think that’s too far off?

28:12
I think it’s a good science fiction. But honestly, with this bond, I’m not sure we will do investment in that dimension. Of course, we will observe again, and I myself a big fan of this will come to reality. I mean, of course, we’re super open, and we’d love to, to come along. People are trying moonshots. But for the time being, I mean, it would require very, very well developed argumentation to convince me now it can change in one of yours. I mean, again, with our timer, isn’t it 17 years to make it happen? Nope. We have investment per year, the additional two years and a half with this fund that we come with this one, but when it was fun to Yeah, why not? I mean, at least what assures that I would prefer not to miss the spring. Now, that was about like, the way we consume the way we shop is constantly evolving and and marketer have an interest of creating new experience to generate this whoa effect that probably will convert. And so novelty is again, super important. So if there is a team that come with an experience that is really creating this wow effect in a way that it’s actually sustainable and duplicatable. Why not taking it?

29:59
You don’t Switching gears a little bit here, we’ve seen some, a little bit of innovation on the on the fund manager side, we’re seeing sort of accelerator like programs emerge. And I hear that you’re a part of the operator program. I’d love to hear just In brief, you know, what that program is about and what your experience has been like?

30:20
Well, first, this program is basic objectives to say so but it’s, I mean, winter and really, behind this, this initiative, have been developing the thoughtful and, and yet 10 weeks 10 week program. So in terms of substance without revealing too much, I mean, for those who haven’t read them, and there are many others I an operation that we were part of this first cohort. And the whole idea was, is to take groom and prepare emerging for managers to raise from institutional LPs, knowing that generally it’s out of reach for many of them for their first song, The objective is to do the things right and to be in which case to raise from them on to or even on the weather as it means the problem, I think there are three main takeaways. First, we, as it is in many accelerator, and I think that’s the, what we can observe at the yc. There’s this community effect. So for this first cohort, we were eating phones. And of course, it creates a very special relationship. And, and, and foster collaboration, digital sharing, and an invitation to do without praising ourselves to match the selection. I mean, it’s really well made his first real element of diversity, but that people are really talented. Some of them are coming from, from big firms. And, and with an impressive track record, a very strong community with a very diverse access to deals that are starting to collaborate more than other other other emerging towns have this sense of belonging to a community, which is hard. For an emerging manager, at least, that’s what I felt for. So pretty, pretty, pretty strong. Take away the second takeaway is, of course, this access to institutional NP. We got maybe not introduced, but we had the opportunity to exchange shady raised questions, too, I would say the usual suspects, all the big phones, the phones and family office that are quite known to invest in emerging managers and beyond. And yeah, we had an interaction with most of them. And all this in a in a small committee with certain confidentiality rules, that makes the discussion quite candid, and, and enable us to really understand what these guys expect. And why would the past and why would they go, which is, as you probably know, it’s really hard to have real candid feedback from from from within the industry, I would say in general, I mean, just you do the same as LP that Yeah, you wonder for, but you’re gonna pass. And so yeah, so very candid insights on how these guys work, and what the expectation and also an opportunity to showcase your specificity and diversity and originality more than so. That’s the second point. And the third, third, sir takeaway, which is very valuable, and it’s a certain alignment in terms of practice, and methodology, especially for us in Joseph and I have been developing our activity and processes based on our diverse experiences and kind of process obsessed, and Joseph and as the beloved brainwash, and Joseph is that upset. So on top of it as developers, we created the

34:56
in house CRM, but supercharged I mean, on steroids, basically, that enabled us to manage our digital. And now we have many different modules on top of it an app platform, and so on. So we did it all based on what we felt was important. And when we move the needle in, in, in, in our activity, and the idea was to be able to scare ourselves and to run by three to 4 million to the same 400 million. And, and, and, and set the standard of practice for our teams. And even if we had the chance to share, and discuss around it with some of our advisors, upstairs with an operator, we had the chance to actually have direct an intense conversation around a specific process, they were talking about investment criteria, combat investment memo, how to build an equity, termination, is there a little bit think about cofman. But at the 100th of the price, something like that. Something from from disrespect, nursing again, close man, of course, but for for me, at least it’s out of reach in terms of price point, and I’m sure we would benefit a lot from from all this practice, but we see the operator, we had the chance to get to get both, again, from Miss sometimes from the best practitioner because they were coming from June when they went from very, very valuable. I can only recommend it definitely an accelerator and, and, and for us again, being European immigrants. Somehow, outsider, we feel we belong really to be more to the ecosystem now. super valuable, maybe more valuable for us and others, but we’re super grateful with this experience. And and I’m not going to talk too much about the the impact on our effort, fundraising efforts at best, but they are obvious and and as finished as finishing. Great acceleration, great name came to us. I mean, if need to stamp of approval. That way she can do a temper. That’s great. That’s great.

37:35
Do you think now’s a good time to be a diverse fund manager? Do you think it’s a particularly difficult time?

37:43
Thank you time, it has always been a good time, honestly. Because there’s this sheep, I mean, this this sheep mentality in the industry that is somehow quite dangerous in terms of inflating the values of certainties, and put that into party the real return and we’ve seen it visually, last year with some IQ, they were very, very disappointing. A diverse manager has a specific length, and maybe see opportunities where others don’t. So, this is nothing new, it has always been the case, you have a look not only at the target market, but that the market in general that is different, and you will see different opportunities where others are. So knowing that these things happen, it’s clear that you turn to you tend to invest in people that that resonate with you as an investor for sure. And so if you have a diverse background, you will invest in in more diverse people. And that will be able to take a more diverse market maybe that are not well known and where they are a huge opportunity. I think so is a good opportunity to but now nowadays I mean ecosystem industries is making a special efforts and no just the as an opportunity to to enter some specific programs and get get a bit more more funding that was out of which yesterday, so yeah, it’s a good timing. And it’s good that we’re coming to the level of awareness. Having said that we are in fall. There’s a lot of efforts to be done. I hope you see I hope is just the beginning. But you know for for, for French person, French culture chippers. A very specific kind of the sensitivity to this. I don’t know how to put it in a in a shoe in a shoe sentence. Actually, I actually posted a note on the topic expander the way we perceive society is much more fluid and then communitarian in terms of social contract. And so even the notion of axiomatic action is something that is it’s a stretch for for French culture. So for interlace, we, we believe we, we invest in diversity in a genuine manner. This is something we also measure to make sure that we we can improve our access and, and orient our, our efforts into maybe the opportunities but now we don’t have a specific mandate or a specific state, you’re rich. That that’s, that’s the way we, we tackle the question at our level, but again, referring to my notes on the topic. And I’m happy to take any comments and discussion on that. That’s something I’m also discovering. You know, I, I like to say that, and this is quite shocking. I’d like to say that I discovered that I was black when when I arrived in the US five years ago.

41:44
Yes.

41:45
I know that the statement. Again, I refer to my notes for the explanation on that.

41:51
Yeah, we’ll definitely link that up in the show notes. Vincent, what do you know you need to get better at

41:59
Wow, yeah, plenty of you mean in my in my life right. Now that I’ve been plenty, plenty of direction, honestly. I think consistency and yeah, being myself how to say also Sunday night not to get too excited and too, too sensitive to FOMO because at the end that’s what it is. And yeah, be more grounded and be more more confident. And in my in my own intuition that meaning that I should listen much more to my internal voice than the noise that’s that’s that’s a permanent work. Because you can really easily lose this balance is funny because at the moment I’m saying that I see maybe do you see what he’s just behind me? That’s maybe a meditation Fisher ah. And that’s that’s that’s my my work on trying to remain grounded and present an unfair Good for you.

43:24
Finally, Vincent, what’s the best way for listeners to connect with you and follow along with interlace?

43:30
Oh, drop me an email incentive interviews viki.com I’m not gonna say respond to 100% of them but I’m quite open to cold email and and I go through through them and if there is something that is touching me or moving me I will take the time and we definitely I believe we definitely have this mentor dimension wherever we investor on always have to fix take a bit of time for somebody wanting to was willing to do things. Actually. I opened my Saturday morning for that you’ve meant even for the better not in commerce. I’m happy if I can, if I can help an afternoon.

44:14
Well, Vincent, thank you so much for the time today. This has been a real pleasure. You know, best wishes with with fund one and the operator program and everything. You’re building it at interlaced.

44:24
Thank you so much, Nick. It was my pleasure and busy, busy grateful of the staff invitation and disbandment video. Thank you. Thanks for giving us advice. Appreciate it.