262. Why I Invested in Shotcall (Thomas Gentle)

Thomas Gentle of Shotcall

On this special segment of The Full Ratchet, the following individuals are featured:

  • Nick Moran
  • Thomas Gentle

This will be a unique segment where, Founder of Shotcall, Thomas Gentle, will discuss his startup story and how he chose New Stack to participate in the funding round.

Guest Links:

Transcribed with AI

Intro 0:02
Welcome to the podcast about venture capital, where investors and founders alike can learn how VCs make decisions and reach conviction. Your host is Nick Moran. And this is The Full Ratchet.

Nick Moran 0:19
Thomas Gentle joins us today from Atlanta. Thomas is the founder and CEO of Shotcall the platform to play with or against your favorite gamer athlete or celebrity. Thomas has been an avid gamer for much of his life. So despite his young age, he likely has more domain expertise in this industry than most of the founders that we invest in. Thomas, thank you for making the time.

Unknown Speaker 0:40
Of course, Nick, happy to be here, man.

Nick Moran 0:43
Yeah, man. So take us back to the beginning, you know, walk us through your background. And you know how that led to shackle. Sure,

Thomas Gentle 0:51
I’ll try and be as as concise as I can. So one thing that your your listeners might be able to pick up on more as we go through this is that I have a bit of a stutter. And the only reason why it’s really important to bring up is because nowadays, it’s nowhere near as bad as it used to be. But for the majority of my youth, it was so bad. I was essentially a mute. And I’ve always been a huge nerd, and tech geek. But growing up with a stutter. At that age, you don’t really have the ability to communicate and build relationships in a way that most folks are accustomed to. So I took solace in the internet, it’s really where I grew up. That’s where I formed the majority of my early relationships. So the birth of YouTube and justin.tv, and geo cities forums. It’s where I was able to communicate. And of course, through this online content and communities, I got really, really involved in gaming. And that’s when I discovered that gaming as a medium is the ideal kind of a day a digital space for people to break bread and become and become equals, it doesn’t really matter where you come from, or what your background is, as soon as you’re in a game. Two people are either allies or going toe to toe. And it’s where my love for people and interactions are just a really took off. And as the industry and the online world has evolved, there’s a lot of how to that I love, it is always at the forefront and the bleeding edge of tech. There’s a whole lot about the space that has irked me over the years. And one of the biggest ones is the fans and viewers that watch all of these content creators and pro gamers and icons built online. They’ve kind of been the left, they have been left behind. You can like today, you can like a channel or follow or subscribe or chat or comment or view. But that’s always the extent of it, you are only a viewer you are perpetually benched. And that’s absurd to me, because the fans and viewers dictate the entirety of the industry’s worth, they are truly at the center of the whole globe whole value chain. They dictate what gets watched and what games fall in and out to favor and what platforms are used and what brands are consumed. And yet they are rarely a focal point of interactions. And I find that absurd. They’re heavily under monetized with a high ability and willingness to spend more you can even see this, because the Goldman Sachs put out a report late 2018 Showing that nearly a third of all influencers, earnings globally, were made by the sheer altruism of the fans were influencers and creators of both big and small. They bring in tips and donations and the fans really don’t get anything in return beyond that of supporting a community and a hobby that they love. But if you were to give them what they generally want, if you were to bring them a deeper into the fold, there’s untapped potential. So I brought the idea to my two co founders, all three of us are graduates from Georgia Tech here in Atlanta. And of course you If you go to tech, odds are you are also a huge nerd and into and into a gaming. And they were hooked. They had plans to go work at either a Google or Amazon, they are both brilliant devs. But they are also a blood thirsty and would prefer to build and break things on their own. And we got to work obviously, not really knowing what we were doing at first. And we got into a Google score labs and then create X out of at a DC and tech square began to network in the space pretty shamelessly. So going to conventions and, and sneaking into parties and getting kicked out of parties come to find out like, while there are millions of influencers and craters around the world, and you can be a little all struck at first. All of them are just people, and they have a career. And they want to first and foremost, please their fans. And when you really get to know them, you will notice a trend that they all have the same pain points across the board, all of them have the same complaints, the same pain points. Depending on where they are in the hierarchy, they might tear them differently, but they all need the same thing. And what they need is an ability to better engage alongside their community in a way that is easy to track where they can do it all under one roof where you can allow them to pay the bills while also giving the fans what they want. So we built a shot call and got into a TechStars. And TechStars did a great job of kicking our ass I don’t know if I am allowed to curse on air. But that’s what TechStars did. And here we are, we are consistently growing and setting a pretty high bar for ourselves in terms of growth, I think it’s like at 40% across the board the month over month, and are in the process of closing around. So it’s exciting, but a lot of work. Yeah, a

Nick Moran 7:15
lot in front of you were very lucky to to have a chance to participate in this. I think this is this is very exciting for everybody on the team here. But you know, I imagine the audience has a sense for it. But if you had to describe shot call, you know, give us the one liner, what would that be?

Speaker 3 7:32
It’s the day a destination for fans to play games with their favorite people. You

Nick Moran 7:39
kind of teed up the problem in the intro there, right? There’s not a real way for fans to engage at a deeper level with their gaming heroes. And there’s not a great way for the gaming heroes to activate those fans and allow them to engage. Right? I mean is can you talk more about that problem? You know, is there? Is there a way you quantify that are tested? You know, is this something viable that people are willing to pay for?

Speaker 3 8:06
Yeah, so I want to be clear, like there are many like this space is the is truly the wild wild west of industries. Right now. It’s exploding, but it’s still new. And the majority of folks who really, really understand it, unfortunately, are kids. So they are trying to pave the way and to speak up about what is happening. But there are a dozens of platforms out there that talk about monetizing a fan base and bringing the fans a deeper into the fold. Usually it goes in one of two directions. Either one, you are one of dozens of coaching sites or a tournament sites or gambling sites, all of these platforms that are built around one kind of an activation between the fans and the hosts. And it’s a faulty assumption to go that path, at least in our opinion, because it’s built on the assumption that influencers in their communities are static, of the whatever games they play. Now, however they want to interact alongside their community. Now, that’s always going to be the case. And that’s not true. They need one destination that allows for them to interact alongside the fans, regardless of size, stature or status of their community and content. Or two, what happens is you’ll get a platform or site that again, will say that they’re here to help you engage and monetize a fan base, but ultimately are going to struggle with a high UA or CAC cost, right. And that’s because they have to convince influencers to bring on on their fan base in their community onto this new platform that is ultimately tearing the viewers and fans away from the content and game that they already love. That doesn’t make a lot of sense either, like you can throw all the money in a world at that. But it’s not going to diminish the fact that the fans don’t want to be further away from the game and the content and their favorite influencer, they want to get deeper involved. So we take the pain point of the first and say, it shouldn’t only be one kind of an activation, it should be agnostic and modular, so that a host can do do whatever they care to do. And a second part it should be built entirely around identifying high superfans of a community and bringing them deeper into the fold that is both beneficial to the viewers and the host. Who

Nick Moran 11:00
are the competitors, Thomas and how are you guys different depends

Speaker 3 11:04
on how you view it how we view it is, there’s a lot of, there’s a lot of fragmented competition here in the platforms that are going to talk about doing these one off kinds of activations, so a tournament platforms, coaching platforms, to wager matches, there’s a lot of those and they’re all small, and they are broken up all over the place. You can view them as competition and that we do all of them and a combined setting. And we would argue that we can do them a better because by design, it is a modular, and it’s all under one roof, it allows for you to not have to drag a fan base, from platform to platform to platform to do individual things, you can do it all there on shot call. And because we don’t have to ultimately host the content. And by design, our overhead is exceptionally low. So we can easily also undercut on particular services. Where I see real competition is in platforms that acknowledge that in a space that is fragmented, it makes sense to aggregate a solution set and there’s only a handful companies that are doing it. One, the closest one that is seems to be pretty similar to shot call is called a Rena, and I believe they’re based and Eastern Europe, I think in Russia somewhere near Russia, and they’re not in the West. And they are all so new. They do a similar kind of structure as us that would be the closest to a competitor that I can really point out a another one that does a market side is in China. As usual. Asia is ahead of us here as it applies to either a gaming or consumer tech. And there’s an app called biking spelled bei Xin, where fans can essentially pay to play with professional Esports players and a China now they are relegated only to China and you can find her white papers online and it’ll break down there go to markets and the UAE strap and it’s smart. So we beat them by having more than a sample of market to request side and also we are going to be the first to market in the west where a game expanding and more importantly the influencer market is the largest in the world now so really we need to move fast.

Speaker 2 14:02
Yeah, so just give us a simple sense for the workflow right does it start with a request from the gamer like hey ninja I want to play with you or does it start with the influencer joins the platform and says hey, you know, I’m available you know who’s who’s with me or against me? It

Speaker 3 14:16
can be either or so someone like a ninja but having spoken to their rep, I can tell you more than more than likely they would have to have a filter on the right quest side but but to let’s say that it is a ninja a ninja would build a profile on Shaco a a typical social profile, but it’s more game focused. He attaches his twitch or his YouTube all of his socials and integrates into his communication channels on a discord and by integrating into these channels. It’ll also have shot called show up on his content on his feet. And he picks the games that he plays, his availability and the price for the fans to or a quest hop and play alongside him in his content, he can either approve or deny those requests at his leisure, and Shopko handles the exchange of information and puts them into a private chat, and really allows him to put a security wall around his gamer information only to the fans and consumers that he is supposed to play with. That’s de marketside. The platform side is where a ninja himself can set up the details of what is essentially a live event that we call a session. And he can structure it however he cares to do so he can say, Alright, guys, every Friday from noon to five, I want to play with as many of you as possible to one on one in fortnight. So he can spin up a cue line type of a session on Shaco, where all of his fans have a clamor to get in line and it’s a first come first serve. And you can clearly see who is in line, who’s supposed to play when, and he’s in complete control. Or you can structure it as an auction, a sweepstakes, they can go to a charity, it can be a grudge match, it can be a tournament, he can also offer his time as a coach, really, however he wants to structure it, it’s all comes down to our available a session types. And really what we are doing here is we are giving a host complete control over managing the details of a party or a lobby, and how that is structured. So when knowing the specific games and how people usually play in those games is important to build that.

Nick Moran 17:05
Well, I hope TechStars was generous with those AWS credits, because I’m sure sure you’re gonna you they were

Speaker 2 17:13
they were Thomas, you know, something that jumped out to me early on. So we’ve seen a lot of decks that were quote unquote, the cameo for gaming, right, like we’ve seen cameos, we’ve seen cameos rise, we’ve seen a lot of people that want to do this within gaming, they want to try and connect the celebrities, so to speak with the individual gamer. But there were a lot of problems with with many of the businesses that we saw prior to shackle, of course, but something that always stood out to me was that, you know, the CAMEO model is asynchronous, which makes it a bit more liquid, right? Somebody can put out a request, and that celebrity can record the video whenever they would like as long as they meet the deadline, send it back. You’re in an environment, of course, that more tech intensive and a synchronous, right, you have to have the celebrity or you know the influencer on at the same time as the person that’s competing against them. You know, do you think that’s a challenge to growth and scale?

Speaker 3 18:09
Of course, it’ll be a challenge. But it’s not one that we aren’t prepared to face. How I see it as a challenge has more to do with it requires us to over time to consistently innovate and how we integrate, and to the existing content, and importantly, the game. So what I mean by that, we’ve already had like a number of fans who have missed a session time, and they can get upset and say like, why am I not accepted to the game. The good news is that they contact us they direct their distaste no longer to the hosts they are dictated to us of which adds to the importance of Shaco. It’s what allows for influencers to do this in the first place. It gives a sense of professionalism. And then we can simply say, the session time as x, you showed up at y. That’s why you weren’t able to get it and their hands were moved up in the line in your stead. But in order to fix the real problem, and that has a lot to do with automated head of matchmaking. Currently, you still have to manually add a fan or the host in the game through their IGN or in game name that is only test close to those who are meant to be participating. It’s not a massive a friction point. But if you can, say get access to a publishers API or SDK and automatically populate a lobby or a party in real time in sync with a session on short call, you don’t have to worry about a deadline. So long as the fan or the host is even on the game, they’ll automatically be populated into a party to gather at the time of the session start, Cameo is not going to be able to do that simply by the nature of the model. Gaming allows for you to be far more autonomous. All be it, it’ll take more time and effort.

Nick Moran 20:42
Right? What about, you know, the customer side here? How would you respond to the criticism that your target customer, they don’t have deep pockets, they don’t have a lot of money to spend on, you know, these transactions with influencers,

Speaker 3 20:58
you don’t have to have a lot, there are approximately four points HC a million active streamers on Twitch and it grows constantly. And that’s Twitch alone. And those aren’t fans, those are hosts and the ocean of them are in the longtail so around the 96% of them are micro communities. If you get really granular, it means that they have a fan base of around 1000 to 3000 fans, they have a CTV or concurrent viewers have between a five to a 25 at any given time. And that’s a lot. That’s a lot of people, they don’t have to spend hundreds of dollars, they actually only have to spend a few bucks. And even then you don’t actually have to grab all of the fans. If you are a smaller influencer or creator, let’s say you have 1000 fans, and only 10% of those fans are super fans how fine you have 100 fans, and let’s say from those 100 fans, 10% of those are willing to spend only five bucks a month to play alongside you great, that is 50 bucks a month, or 600 bucks a year. And if you are that ocean of influencers, that puts a pretty decent dent. And that’s still being modest on how much you earn. And there are a millions, millions of those on which alone that’s obviously not including a Facebook, or a tick tock or a D live or Instagram. There’s a lot or obviously YouTube huge, they don’t have to spend a lot. Especially if you take a look at the real and numbers of the longtail where even a small movement of the needle for them means the world to them. So, yeah, you really don’t have to charge a lot. And you know, our model, you have seen day a numbers. It’s a high ceiling here.

Nick Moran 23:17
Well, it begs the question, you know, how do you think these young folks get access to the gaming consoles and, and the games and everything they do they find a way, you know, find some discretionary money to spend on this because this is their passion, right?

Speaker 3 23:34
A great point there too, is the most lucrative games these days. So take a look at what is the most popular obviously fortnight or League of Legends or Overwatch, and things like that are free to play. They are free upfront, and they make billions annually on microtransactions and in or out game kind of merchandise and skins all around clouds and deeper interactions and they can charge between five to 50 bucks and the majority of the players and users are young kids. They are paying for it somehow. Yes. Yeah. So it’s real.

Nick Moran 24:21
And the the influencers when they’re matched with fans and you know, they engage in a game together can the influencer still stream that as normal to the core fan base?

Speaker 3 24:31
Of course and we’re in full support of that. It addresses a marketing opportunity for us to where we don’t have to constantly throw ads in the eyes and ears of fans or influencers you bring on an influencer and by a default they are going to have short call show up on their contents and then their fans hear about it and they go oh day If I can play, I can share that spotlight. And they can just click there. So yes. Oh, you’re all about that.

Nick Moran 25:08
Love it, love it. Tell us a bit about sort of the long term vision here, I think most people probably have a pretty good appreciation for what you’re doing and, and where the value is. And I imagine that the, you know, the transactions and the progress that you’ve had so far is, is definitely justifying that. There’s a substantive market here. But you know, what is the next three to five years look like for shackle?

Speaker 3 25:32
It depends on if you want to look at it from a technical aspect, we would integrate deeper into the publishers and the gaming platforms themselves. So if you play a game like fortnight, which their owner is Epic Games, and epic has a launch platform on all computers and consoles, we would want to show up right there. It’s a similar Yiwei strategy, as by him that they did away with gaming cafes, and pub G. So it has a lot to do with partnering alongside the publishers, adding to their UAE stack, and building a consistent moat around us, along with the mobile space because mobile game is the silent behemoth that is consistently creeping in. So we want to stay at the forefront. And we believe that mobile gaming and mobile eSports is only going to get bigger and bigger and bigger. So an app there is a necessity. From a model perspective, we are already getting customers and users on shot call who would like for shotcalling to be truly the One Stop hub for all of their fan interactions and monetization capabilities. There’s a lot of potential partnerships and verticals that we can approach. Because of that. Users want to take their Shopify over to shot call, they want to cancel their Patreon and bring it to a shot call. They want to have any kind of fan interaction, other than where they ultimately host the content under one roof. And the same goes for the agency’s Esports teams and reps who manage the whales, they want that as well, because then they have on aggregate spot for a data. So there’s a lot of other verticals for monetization you can go into that I believe we will hit within 30 years and five years is when it could get very cool. Because Hardcore is designed in a way that is modular, and we are essentially disseminating Patreon. It’s become applicable organically to influencers who frankly do even more than gaming. If you’re a creator, a streamer, any kind of an influencers, a celebrity a professional athlete, you game as a hobby. But gaming is the most widespread hobby, but it’s not the only thing that you do. So you could be a gamer, but you’re also into a makeup, you could be a gamer, you’re also into cooking, or cosplay, or all sorts of things. And a lot of our users are already setting up sessions and community events, to teach their fans how to do their makeup, or how to cook and do all sorts of things. Obviously, we don’t put a whole lot of effort into marketing that and you don’t want to muddy the brand. But we aren’t naive to the reality that if you can grab the ocean of quote unquote gamers, that same user base is an immediate and additional vertical for you to tap into. So strategically, we go after the gamers first, and then we can evolve from there.

Nick Moran 29:29
Very good. Tell us a bit about the team at Chaco. Sure,

Speaker 3 29:33
so I’m the CEO and co founder I have two additional co founders their names are, are highly often. And Gordon Lee, both Riley and Gordon graduated whom who melotti from Georgia Tech. Both are brilliant devs and all they want to do is work it’s insane. They Are both full stack, but they specialize in different ways. And it’s the perfect kind of a compliment. Gordon is really good on front end design. And Riley is brilliant on the back end and architecture. So they both have done to a vast majority of day a build to date, and all of it is proprietary. So they are proud of their work. And as we continue to bring on more a tech talent, I know that they are thrilled to see what others think of their work. So those are the other two co founders. And we have an additional a team member, Aiden Swank, who is also a streamer himself has been in the space for years. He is currently in charge of community, which in our world is a way to say sales, he is in charge of UAE. But because you aren’t just selling a product who hosts and influencers, you’re aggregating their community and fan base. So it’s more of a low touch than a typical a sales role. Like you have to build real or hate relationships alongside the influencers as you grow to maintain their trust. So currently, it’s only a team of four. So it’s small.

Nick Moran 31:32
You mentioned at the top, you know, some of the data and some of the progress you’ve made. Can you highlight that progress to date? And then also talk about you’re raising this round? You know, what are your priorities here in the next year and a half? Yep.

Speaker 3 31:44
So we had our beta launch while still at TechStars. Back in March, we launched with 10 streamers who were rotting an aggregate average of three sessions a day. And we had a goal for a minimum 40% growth across all of our KPI and data, the month over month. And come May, we began to really see a k factor like an exponential effect, where we had growth across data, lowest growth in our metrics were 140% growth. The highest was 250% growth in that Ohyes in fan signups. And now there are around 18 sessions run a day, average sessions run per influencer, every month, has gone from like 1.4 to 3.8. Like our goal is to hit the closer you you get to four, that’s a win. In our opinion, you know, you have something good A because A good way to view it is like a Fan Friday or subscribers Sunday, where it’s a consistent and reoccurring part of your content that you are playing alongside your fans on shot call. And we are already starting to see overlap and participation were around a fourth of all active influencers. And now we have around 150 They are not only consistent in playing alongside their fans and hosting these interactions, they’re also signing up for other influencers a session. So it’s not a simple a one to one kind of interaction. It’s an ecosystem, where influencers who want to sign up for other influencers activities where they can have their communities overlap, and a co host, around a fifth of all fans, they not only sign up for multiple sessions a month, but if it’s a cue line, they’ll hop back in line after they have already participated. So it’s like if you go to a theme park, and you will wait in line. And after you get off of the ride. You say that was so much fun. I want to get back in line. And we’re already seeing that.

Nick Moran 34:24
You mentioned 150 influencers, how many of those are are weekly active?

Speaker 3 34:29
That is it like all of those are around weekly actives. So those are active per month. And the average amount of sessions for the active influencers is close to four. So almost all of them. Wow. So

Speaker 2 34:49
I wanted to get into a couple investor questions in a sec. But before we do that, can you just talk a brief bit about why you chose new stack and Just to give the audience some quick color. This was a fast moving, very competitive situation overall, I was very pleased, you know that we could be involved. But yeah, for a while there, we weren’t sure if we would be involved. And I’m very happy that we are. And yeah, I would just love to hear you know, what went into your thought process on partnering with new sec. Or

Speaker 3 35:22
so I’ll be candid. You guys, especially Nate and I have picked come close over the past what like two months three, and I have had to pitch and talk to at this point. I’ve pitched probably 400 investors in the past eight weeks, wow. Or, or 10. Like a lot. It’s been absurd. And all of them, you know, like, there are obvious pros and cons to all of them. But the attention to detail. And the genuine character like it sounds cheesy. It sounds philosophy. But it’s true. The character that you guys have displayed, of being consistent in communication and transparency in your healthiness to get hands on, and not only learn about our company and a vision, but teach along the way, I think is rare. And I don’t say that lightly, because I’ve had to speak to a lot of folks. I mean, like, at this point, it’s not just about a cheque, it’s about the people behind the cheque, and very much so want to have you guys be a part of this. So I just had a long way of saying, I like the cut of your jib.

Nick Moran 36:51
Well, it goes both ways. Likewise. It’s always nice when we meet founders that have like a true narrative, a true mission, you know, they’re connected to the mission and what they’re doing. They’re not just not just a mercenary, not just working on something, because it’s, you know, some huge software as a service opportunity in the insurance space. Yeah, hard to get excited about this one was an easy one to get excited about. And I’m glad that you’re running it with your great co founding team. But let’s just do a couple questions from the the investor audience out there. I’m going to look through these. What do you think now is the right time for this? Why is it not been done before? Oh,

Speaker 3 37:31
well, it’s been attempted in bits and pieces. Mainly, the idea of being able to interact alongside a celebrity has always been a a cool idea. Like, how cool would it be to get on the field and throw the ball alongside a Tom Brady. And if you have listeners here who hate the Patriots, I am sorry, but it could still be cool. But not a lot of people can afford how much it’s going to cost to sign all kinds of waivers and rent a stadium and fly out Tom and all of this stuff. So using gaming as a medium to connect fans to influencers presents a totally different kind of an opportunity. Even a Tom Brady, in a locker room or on a flight is still playing Madden. And that’s a great way for him to engage alongside his fans doing something he’s already doing, that his fans have access to. But as it relates particularly to the world of gaming, three things one, gaming has recently become extremely accessible. It’s not just a bloated nerd in the basement. It is a Tom Brady, it is everyone it is a Drake playing fortnight alongside of a ninja and AWS crashing because they can’t handle it. So one is accessibility to the multiplayer games are now a norm growing up. It was not always the case. When I was a kid, I had a Commodore and instinctly for a Gameboy or games or single player. Obviously, it’s hard to play alongside fans and other people if you can’t play alongside other people. And if you look at the most popular games, not only are they a multiplayer, they are massive multiplayer. So it’s not just you and one other person it could be you and 100 fans. It’s huge, right? And the third is that streaming is becoming widespread. It used to be that content distribution was all static. It was VOD. And if you are an influencer online, trying to monetize content. Now you’re unfortunately also going to have to know how to share and produce and edit. But if your stream, you don’t have to know any of that it’s great. It’s a whole lot easier. You simply have to be able to talk and entertain in front of a camera. Anyone can do that. So the culmination of those three things has allowed for this to actually happen.

Speaker 2 40:20
Yeah. I mean, if I just think five years ago, the technology, it could not happen. Yeah, the internet speeds and everything else just wasn’t there. So I think you just answered this question from an investor. I’m 40. Plus, I’m not into gaming don’t quite get it. But I would think that big time athletes would, you know, fans would want to play with big time athletes. Sounds like that’s, it sounds like you’re doing that as well. It’s not just the gaming influencers, the ninjas and the PD buyers, right? Correct.

Speaker 3 40:46
It is very simple. Do you have a fan base? And do you game? If you answer yes to both? You should be on short call. Cool. Very good.

Nick Moran 40:58
And then final one? Are there specific types of games that this is best suited for? You know, how do you account for the longer RPG games that are, you know, one player two player, and some of them are not online? Yep.

Speaker 3 41:09
And that is exactly what I touched on. So the priority is multiplayer games. Now, that is to say that you can’t go after the single player games. But it’s only thanks to a recent trend in streaming called IRL streaming, where it’s individuals and hosts who they could really be doing anything, it’s more about the personality. It’s essentially what write reality TV was. And now it is alive for a new generation. And they could still play a single player game or they don’t even have to turn on a game. And on shotcalling, they can do a q&a or just come chat alongside power, however you want to structure it.

Nick Moran 42:03
Thomas, this was a real pleasure, man, thank you for doing this. I can’t wait to work with you more. I mean, your team is awesome. What you’re building is just very exciting. So very glad to be involved. Very glad to be co leading the round. And thanks again for doing this,

Unknown Speaker 42:19
of course, Nick.

Speaker 2 42:25
That we’ll wrap up today’s episode. Thanks for joining us here on the show. And if you’d like to get involved further, you can join our investment group for free on AngelList. Head over to angel.co and search for new stack ventures. There you can back the syndicate to see our deal flow. See how we choose startups to invest in and read our thesis on investment in each startup we choose. As always show notes and links for the interview are at full ratchet.net And until next time, remember to over prepare, choose carefully and invest confidently thanks for joining us